Title asks it all. Would you give up a kidney to get a completed copy of MMF3D right now? Let's assume it'll have a decent engine (let's say it matches the Quake 3 engine) and be really easy to use. Or would you prefer to wait? I know I probably would.
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Originally Posted by marky_2 Title asks it all. Would you give up a kidney to get a completed copy of MMF3D right now? Let's assume it'll have a decent engine (let's say it matches the Quake 3 engine) and be really easy to use. Or would you prefer to wait? I know I probably would.
I highly doubt it would have anything close to Quake 3's engine.
I don't see why it would come bundled with such an engine, but I also don't think the Quake engine is anything special by todays standards, so why rule it out completely?
I can't imagine 3D to be easy to use. Not unless it comes with built in library characters and built-in 3D movements (which nobody will use).
Making a 3D animated character is uglier and takes a way longer time to do it yourself, unless you've got a lot of experience. Making 3D movement, even at its simplest, is a pain. 2D vectors are nothing. 3D vectors are a heck lot more effort. If you're not making your custom platform movements with realistic gravity or friction and stuff, chances are there's no way you could handle the math to do 3D custom movement.
Not worth a kidney, IMO. But hey, I'm happy making text based games, it's hard enough convincing me to finish something in 2D in the first place.
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I think clickteam missed the boat long ago, now that indie games (which are most of the time 2D based) seem to be rather popular with the mainstream again I don't really see the point on clickteam leaving their confort zone.
Unless it would come with a modern engine, I can't imagine anyone outside the click community having much of an interest on it, and I highly doubt clickteam has the resources and personnel for that.
Summing up, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
I can imagine it being easy to use. Once you import your models, you'll be able to move them around and scale them easily. Then in the events editor you'll just have "while key pressed, rotate model, look towards another model, move model" or something. Remember they did make Jamagic and they've both been programming for over 25 years each.
I guess MMF3D is inconsistent with Clickteam's education model of selling things, though. You're right. It'll never be made.
Discarded pizza boxes are an indispensable source of cheese.
As Muz says unless they use ready made engines, programming a 3D game movement engine is out of the mathematical and or time grasps of a lot of people - myself included. I would just not have the time to make a 3D movement myself
Second to that the engine at best would probably look like a game from the time period of Quake 3 or RTCW at the very best, and will look very very dated.
Thridly as Muz points out 3D animation of chatecters is VERY hard and VERY time consuming to non pro's. Even as someone who can do CAD drawings very I find it very hard to do, and I also find modelling organic things very hard too.
To top it off I like 2D. Game making is a hobby, and always will be for me. I would love to do a game akin to GTA1, but hopefully the openGL tools Hayo is using for Fishhead 3D will be capable of doing what I want .
Why is everyone saying working with 3D is more difficult than 2D ?
From the point of view of the artist it's true because you have to model, texture, rig and then animate if you want to make a model for a Mario 64 clone for example.
From the programmer's point of view, it's the same exact thing except you have to the possibility of using another dimension and some more stuff you couldn't with 2D. And more possibilities don't always mean more complications.
The more difficult aspects of 3D programming would probably be already pre-coded such as a collisions, lightning and so on, so if you're familiar with the other click products (and assuming they keep the same interface) I highly doubt you'll have that many difficulties working with a 3D version of MMF.
Originally Posted by Johnny Look Why is everyone saying working with 3D is more difficult than 2D ?
From the point of view of the artist it's true because you have to model, texture, rig and then animate if you want to make a model for a Mario 64 clone for example.
From the programmer's point of view, it's the same exact thing except you have to the possibility of using another dimension and some more stuff you couldn't with 2D. And more possibilities don't always mean more complications.
The more difficult aspects of 3D programming would probably be already pre-coded such as a collisions, lightning and so on, so if you're familiar with the other click products (and assuming they keep the same interface) I highly doubt you'll have that many difficulties working with a 3D version of MMF.
This is what I think.
But I still wouldn't give a kidney to have it sooner rather than later.
Originally Posted by Johnny Look Why is everyone saying working with 3D is more difficult than 2D ?
From the point of view of the artist it's true because you have to model, texture, rig and then animate if you want to make a model for a Mario 64 clone for example.
From the programmer's point of view, it's the same exact thing except you have to the possibility of using another dimension and some more stuff you couldn't with 2D. And more possibilities don't always mean more complications.
The more difficult aspects of 3D programming would probably be already pre-coded such as a collisions, lightning and so on, so if you're familiar with the other click products (and assuming they keep the same interface) I highly doubt you'll have that many difficulties working with a 3D version of MMF.
I believe this is the first thing you have said that I agree with 100%.
Adding the third plane will make things such as distance calculation etc. more difficult for sure, but I wouldn't expect it to be much harder than most good 3d level editors + mmf2.
This is all true assuming we make fairly simple (effectively 2D games) projected into a 3D plane with the Z plane fixed or perhaps the Z plane used in a simple manner like for a bouncing ball/or bouncing cars micro machines style or perhaps a GTA1 clone (I would love to make a GTA1 style game ).
Many years ago I started following a series of OpenGL tutorials (before any good free C++ libraries like Irrlicht was around), and I also attended some classes at my Uni on 3D game programming - 3D vectors, Matrices and Transformations was used in abundance. I know MMF3D would hopefully handle most of the work but imagine trying to do let's say half decent car physics. You would have to abandon any default movements (as they will inevitably suck) and start from scratch. As an engineering graduate sure I could do the maths given the willpower and time, but I would rather keep game making as a hobby, keep it fun and keep it 2D.
To finish off I also think 3D is a risky venture, as firstly any engine clickteam make will look prehistoric by today's standards due to the size of the company and hence resources and secondly they must very carefully balance how much is done for you. If it does ever get made I do not want it to be an abomination like 3D Game Maker (I unfortunately brought this from Asda for 6 pounds I think!).
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