After an event that occured while playing World of Warcraft, a guildmember saying a particular dutch word (actually that word followed by the dutch word for idiot) after which a lot of drama happened. Here is how wiktionary describes some english words generally considered to be offensive.
- To have sexual intercourse, to copulate.
- The female genitalia, especially the vulva.
- Solid excretory product evacuated from the bowels; feces.
- A female dog or other canine. In particular one who has recently had puppies.
Now, lets consider these. No one would be here if it wasn't for the first and second things on this list. The third thing is something we all do. The fourth is a dog, in the western world considered to be man's best friend.
Ok, lets go back to the word the offending guildmember used (as it turns out, it's the most offensive word in the dutch language), again this is how wiktionary defines it:
- A disease in which the cells of a tissue undergo uncontrolled (and often rapid) proliferation.
My observation here is that while the english speaking world finds sexual recreation, our own body parts, bowel movements and dogs to be offensive, the most offensive dutch word is something that kills you from the inside
This is not meant to offend anyone, just an observation that I wanted to share.
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
I always wondered why the English and the yanks find boning offensive.
Note that once a disease doesn't kill people anymore it is considered less offensive. "tering" and "tyfus" used to be super offensive words here about 150 years ago.
That was the start of it, and now it's a combination of that and parents not wanting to have to explain it to their children.
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Haha, I'm actually really happy to see a [mature] thread about this because it's always kind of jogged my mind too.
Hayo's answer is likely the most accurate regarding sexual intercourse and it's involvement in offensive language. Frankly, after having been yelled at for saying the word 'sex' at a young age (and being someone who took their parents anger rather hard), words relating to it have always kind of hit me sort of like touching a raw freshly healed wound. It doesn't hurt [offend] me, but it snaps me off guard.
Another word that's fortunately becoming less offensive is the word regarding someone being sent to hell. Frankly, I found the offensiveness OF offensive words, to be pathetic. Language is a funny thing though, you have incredibly formal language which no one seems to appreciate outside of a formal occasion. Then you have informal or casual language that seems only acceptable in casual situations, and then you have offensive language which seems to be rarely acceptable by many people, and considered a part of darker casual conversation for others.
I wont change the world, especially with a single statement... but in an expression of feelings, I hate the offensiveness of offensive language. People seem too sensitive too often to words which, has Predreeke stated, mundane, stupid, or commonplace. I mean how offensive can a word TRULY be... if it's perfect adjective is poop, crap, or fickle matter? What's the big leap between the words that makes one so dramatically offensive that it's censored from prime-time television? Seems silly if you ask me.
Originally Posted by SiLVERFIRE Haha, I'm actually really happy to see a [mature] thread about this because it's always kind of jogged my mind too.
Hayo's answer is likely the most accurate regarding sexual intercourse and it's involvement in offensive language. Frankly, after having been yelled at for saying the word 'sex' at a young age (and being someone who took their parents anger rather hard), words relating to it have always kind of hit me sort of like touching a raw freshly healed wound. It doesn't hurt [offend] me, but it snaps me off guard.
Another word that's fortunately becoming less offensive is the word regarding someone being sent to hell. Frankly, I found the offensiveness OF offensive words, to be pathetic. Language is a funny thing though, you have incredibly formal language which no one seems to appreciate outside of a formal occasion. Then you have informal or casual language that seems only acceptable in casual situations, and then you have offensive language which seems to be rarely acceptable by many people, and considered a part of darker casual conversation for others.
I wont change the world, especially with a single statement... but in an expression of feelings, I hate the offensiveness of offensive language. People seem too sensitive too often to words which, has Predreeke stated, mundane, stupid, or commonplace. I mean how offensive can a word TRULY be... if it's perfect adjective is poop, crap, or fickle matter? What's the big leap between the words that makes one so dramatically offensive that it's censored from prime-time television? Seems silly if you ask me.
Someone once told me it wasn't the word itself, but the hostility behind it. If that were the case, then only the context of the word would matter, and anything used in that context would be considered offensive. It's all about indoctrination, kids are brought up to be told certain words are bad, and certain words must never be used.
I tell you though, it's really obnoxious to get into a heated argument with someone, someone starts swearing then the other person doesn't even continue the argument but has to comment on how better they are than you because they don't use those words.
I watched a movie not to long ago, it was called "Waking Life" and there were a few interesting ideas and concepts in there. One was about language, the fact that it IS man made, and we still don't even have words to describe certain feelings, actions and phenomena that don't have to do with the norm. Language is just a humans attempt at trying to describe what they observe and perceive. Everything is subject to change in those respects, what is considered a solid fact may one day be proven incorrect from a different perspective and with ample evidence, including the way we try to describe things. Words are just words, the only person who can put power behind a word is the person choosing to interpret them.
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It's just a piety we can't teach the rest of the world. I'd love to be able to curse in joking without having parents covering this kids ears in anger toward me for saying them. Just another great example of how much the ignorance of people around me, really agitate me to no end.
Originally Posted by SiLVERFIRE It's just a piety we can't teach the rest of the world. I'd love to be able to curse in joking without having parents covering this kids ears in anger toward me for saying them. Just another great example of how much the ignorance of people around me, really agitate me to no end.
It's obnoxious, I know. I try to adopt a who gives a damn attitude about it, but that doesn't make much of a difference.
For instance, my friends little brothers asked me what queer meant. I told them it meant "strange", but in this culture it is also used for people who are attracted to the same sex as opposed to the opposite sex. I got scolded by their parents the next day, giving me some bs reasons why what I did was wrong, one of them being that they thought one of them might choose to be gay if he knew about it. And people wonder why America has such a large amount of people suffering from mental illness.
That's another thing that really gets my goat, the fact that these people will actually think someone is a bad person just because of the language they choose to use. I've been labeled as a bad person for most of my life, despite the fact that I've never really done anything that was considered remotely bad, and most of the time I never use "bad" language.
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You could quote the 8th (or 9th, apparantly different denominations disagree on the order of the ten commandments) commandment, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor", or in plain english "You shall not lie".
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
I remember when I cursed in tdc once day, I made this 6 pages long story, and it had the 's' word in somewhere in the middle, best part of the story I reckon, but circy removed my story because of that word
I don't have that much to say about the subject since most arguments have already been covered. But it's interesting to see how people interpret the power of language. Many religions have given so much power to certain words that you'd get way more than a scolding if you even utter them. I'd love to know where and when such rules were formed regarding to their respective religion. I personally think it's a quite depreciatory image of the nature of for example an omnipotent and all loving God to think mentioned would really be that butthurt over choice of words.
The butthurtedness in profane language probably stems from the profanities being a "civilized" and socialized substitute for the animal growling and roaring in nature. Instead of threatening each other with roars and mark territory with growls etc. we lay that energy in specific word containers as Horrendous noted.
It all boils down to the primitive responses and instincts left from (sorry all fundamentalists out there!) evolution. Threats and frights.
Sacred/banned words of religion imo belong in an extended category. Unconcious belief that specific words would hold the same kind of primal energy as a threatening roar or such, ultimately projecting pre-human characteristics(fear response to threats) on something that at it's minimum must far surpass post-human qualities, resulting in the very notion of Godly butthurtedness being an even greater offense than using language freely.
Originally Posted by Eternal Man [EE] The butthurtedness in profane language probably stems from the profanities being a "civilized" and socialized substitute for the animal growling and roaring in nature. Instead of threatening each other with roars and mark territory with growls etc. we lay that energy in specific word containers as Horrendous noted.
Also, it's more effective to write down an expletive than to write ROAR!
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
That word is offensive in context. To (copulate) is not really that bad. But "[I'm going to] (copulate) you! (Copulate) you really hard up your (somewhere which causes a lot of pain)!" is a bad thing.
IMO, the English swear words are quite a bit soft. I wanted to give some examples of swearing in other languages, but I can't put a nice way to say them
I liked that old TDC policy where swearing was only not allowed if you do it at people. Or if trolling and such. Like swearing at your code not working is just fine, but swearing at someone you don't like got a strict warning.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I've never understood why people are so afraid of certain words. They're colourful, strong, expressive words. Euphemisms destroy any expression. It's ridiculous that instead of using the word that we mean, "fuck" for instance, we have to use several words to describe an otherwise very common action (that is, "to have intercourse with"). In academic conversation, cursing is not used because of the lack of specificity (and because it's apparently impolite). Nevertheless, a nobel-winning mexican writer once wrote a whole essay on the curse word "chingada" (using it more than 200 times), which is almost equivalent in meaning and conjugation to the previous English curse word. Naturally, if one is to use harsh language gratuitously, especially when much more can be conveyed with more elaborate language, then I'm all for limiting it. Though, sometimes meaning--or, at least, special meaning-- can be given to a thought with only this or another one word. It is thus that I find the general rule for "bad word" omission to be a silly one. Always will the argument about children or teenagers listening to these words arise, but it's an even sillier idea to protect them from otherwise very common and unalienable words.
There are funny products of euphemisms, though. For instance, in ancient Dutch, according to this website*, "to die" is translated as "to give the pipe to Maarten".
It's not so much being afraid of those words. More like being disgusted. Comparing something to excrement is disgusting AND offensive. It's like gore.. nobody is really afraid of gore (which is something those American horror movie makers should learn), but people hate seeing it when there's enough detail.
You do develop a tolerance for it after enough time, as with gore. But kids don't yet have a tolerance for it, so kiddie sites will try to avoid them.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
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Censorship really bugs me. I don't see the point in writing 'F*ck' because everyone who reads it knows exactly what you mean. There's really no point in censoring it. I am strongly against excessive swearing (It's rather unnecessary that people use it to make their point seem stronger) but sometimes there's nothing like a well placed swear word.
Have you even been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Just black out the word and beep it That wouldn't help either because if you followed the story you can just about fill in any offensive word you like.
The same goes for censoring all kind of things, however it does impose a visible limit on what' acceptable and what not.
Offensive words should sound right or good when pronounced and most Dutch diseases do.
About 'maarten's pipe' it can be used for more then dying only, it's just giving up on something. That something can be life or a difficult or boring task or whatever even a relationship or your facebook account.
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Edited by Alonso Martin
That wouldn't help either because if you followed the story you can just about fill in any offensive word you like.
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