The Daily Click

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Talking Topic #4

News posted 14th February, 2007 by The Chris Street

Welcome to the mid-week Talking Topic!

If you don't know what this section is about, here's a quick explanation. Basically, every Wednesday there will be a topic to discuss or debate on the front page. Readers are invited to submit their own opinions on various matters, but please don't use this as an excuse to insult others based on their opinions. Remember, everyone is entitled to an opinion, regardless of whether you disagree with it.

So, the discussion for this week is as follows:

What are your opinions on the selling of klik games?

Please submit your opinions in the comments thread. Happy debating!

Click here to view previous Talking Topics

Posted by Del Duio

14th February, 2007

I don't see a problem with it, but people who try it have to realize that it's REALLY hard to get people to pay for your non-professional stuff. Once you get over that, it's a lot of fun IMO.

Oh and you'll need a good demo or you're screwed!

Posted by Ski

14th February, 2007

Ive sold loads of klikgames. MSD was the most popular. JK

Its a way of making a little money if you've got what it takes, I suppose. Personally Id release a demo first and if its liked, consider selling it... although Id feel bad taking peoples money for something I got enough enjoyment out of doing. If not leave it to being a hobby. Faind could sell their games, Im suprised they don't.

Posted by Del Duio

14th February, 2007

I agree with you to a point, Adam, but after years and years of making / giving away free enjoyment a lot of people will want to try the next step and attempt to see their stuff.

I wanted to make and sell games since I first learned to program in the 7th grade, which was what 18 years ago now. The internet made it more plausible, whereas before my friends and I had the idea that the only way we'd ever sell any games is if Miyamoto himself came to our houses with the offer. LOL.

Posted by Del Duio

14th February, 2007

Er... SELL their stuff, not SEE.

Posted by Superfunk

14th February, 2007

I think it is a pretty nice idea, but no one should expect successful sales unless they put as much good effort into it as ZeroTau did with Noitu Love.

Posted by Radix

14th February, 2007

Remember, everyone is entitled to an opinion, regardless of whether you disagree with it.
Well that's like, your opinion, man.

Posted by Dogzer

14th February, 2007

I think if you make a really good game you should sell it. But if you make a bad game, you shouldnt sell it. But if your game is kind of ok, and you think it's good, but it really isn't, then you need a rating system, one made by various juries with diferent tastes in games, and then a general rating system made of the average of all the people who bought the game and played it, that way you dont end up paying 5 precious dollars for say a radix game that totally sux, cuz you know radix wont give you your money back, but say dogzer made an awesome game, it's 5 bux of well spent money, but remember i dont give my money back either, so you better like my games.. in fact, hey, the daily click should team up with paypal or some other way to pay people, and do it so we can all sell our games here, we can profit a lot from this man

Posted by Plooscva

14th February, 2007

You should only sell really good quality games. And it's also important that they are quite addicting. And giving a trial version will increase the chance of someone buying it. If it's a average game, there's no point.

Posted by Dr. James MD

14th February, 2007

Nowt wrong with it. One of my lecturers mates created a giant RTS game in Flash some years ago. He sold that.

It's all about quality, not the application it was built in.

Worms was originally built in AMOS, I believe.

Posted by s-m-r

14th February, 2007

I personally plan on selling a couple (I'll be bundling one with my band's album, for example), but I'd mostly prefer people offer donations instead of paying a set price for them. This helps skirt the "professionalism hurdle" that was mentioned before, but at the same time rewards the effort put into someone's creation.

I'd love to see what prices some notable Click games would go for on eBay. Anyone know of any examples?

When it comes to small-scale production or distribution (what we all have here, unless we've scored a deal with a publisher), it's difficult to figure out what a good price would be for your games (another reason I like donations-only policies). You can go to a department store and pay $10 (US dollars) for an excellent, very fun game that's only a year or two old. If someone sees a Click game for $10, they'll compare it to all those $10 games they see on the shelf at the local Target. Do you want to compete with that? And beyond that $10 tier, production values (and artwork) ramp up exponentially. The bar is set very high in retail; from what I've seen, I don't think MMF games can seriously compete.

If you're not depending on Click games for your livelihood, I say stick with donations. That way, the buyer pays you what they think your product and you are worth, and you still receive some compensation for the hours spent learning the SDK and composing the game. Quality isn't the only defining factor in that scenario.

...It's also beneficial to be nice to people when talking up your game to them. People won't buy as much from jerks as they would from nice folks.

Posted by X_Sheep

14th February, 2007

I think Multimedia Fusion is perfectly fine for things like those 'casual' puzzle games. Cactus Bruce and the Corporate Monkeys is a good example.

Posted by Steve Harris

14th February, 2007

Selling our games is the way to go in my opinion. It wasn't so long ago that if a clicker was selling a game and it was posted here he/she would get flamed to smitherines.

We've all grown up a bit now I think and if anyone wants to sell one of their games which they've worked long and hard on that's good. If a game is crap and someone tries to sell it people won't buy it. End of. If a game is fun has a good demo to play with and video then the chances are they will sell a few copies. They won't become millions overnight, but they may make a few hundred bucks.

I'm planning to sell a game which myself and Hayo have worked hard on and I may write a little summary after a few months of it being on sale to tell everyone how we got on, what obstacles we found etc

Project preview is here: http://www.create-games.com/preview.asp?id=2823

Posted by Tim

14th February, 2007

Selling click games has been around for ages!!

http://www.brutomemo.com/index.html

AGES!! (your welcome Mario

) It's just most people either don't buy the 'developer' edition of MMF or just don't bother. It's more of a hobby for most - that's the way (uh huh uh huh) we like it

Posted by X_Sheep

14th February, 2007

You don't need the Pro/Developer version to sell things with MMF/MMF2.

Posted by Del Duio

14th February, 2007

It wasn't so long ago that if a clicker was selling a game and it was posted here he/she would get flamed to smitherines.

It's not long at all, in fact it happens now all the time. Look at those games that people try to sell for (what was it?) $18, or even $10. 95% of the feedback on their D/L is mostly "I wouldn't pay for that" or "That's too much!" (Which at $18, it sure as hell is.)

Unless the game is something absolutely AMAZING, I think everyone will have a problem with any click game being more than $5, IMO.

Posted by Green Gnome

14th February, 2007

Sure, I'm completely fine with selling your work. Even though I encourage Open Source programming and such, but that doesn't mean you couldn't sell your work. Let's say I make a great game. If someone asks me to, I'd publish the engine for free download just as long as they mention the creater. But I'd still be selling the game of course.

All you -really- need is a great demo. I absolutely love KNPMaster's CaveJumper and Gunner 4 demos for an example. I'd buy them if I only had a credit card. (They don't give those to students in here until you're basicly a bachelor.)

But a game has to be big to be sold. Look at Knytt, it's a game I really love, it has amazing (yet simple) graphics, it takes time to finish, but yet it's not enough to be sold. It's -too- simple. It's finished in a day. It's a game you donate the creator for but yet it should be downloadable for free. If you understand my point.

Sorry if the text is difficult to follow. I'm multitasking and a bit sick so it's a little difficult to make it any better.

Posted by Phredreeke

14th February, 2007

SHARING IS CARING!!!!!!!111111111111

...ok, excuse the above outburst. Now, I really don't like klik games being sold. There's a huge community making free klik games. Why should people pay for your game when there's plenty of klik games for free? Only the most die-hard klikkers will pay for a klik game.

Posted by Blueberry

14th February, 2007

Yeah, not many would buy the game. But if you try to go for a larger non-klik audience it might be profitable.

Posted by ncsoftware

14th February, 2007

I've been selling click games since the year 2000.

By now, I've had 5 of my mmf titles published by various publishers and it's pretty cool to come across your own games in stores and websites around the world.

I hardly ever show my games to the click world, I stopped doing so. I often make an anouncement and leave it at that.

When I presented my last game here, called Dragonmania also published at Dragon-X: Gold Quest, most people claimed it would never sell and it wasn't that good. By now it's been published by 3 publishers and is scheduled to be in a lot of stores across Europe.

If you have a game, show it to the non-click world and get their opinions about it. If they love it, you have something good, if they don't try again.

I'm not interested in what the click-world thinks of my games anymore, I like to know what the world thinks of it. If I would have listened to the opinions in the click-world about my games, I would have stopped creating games.

I'm glad I didn't, since my games have been published, I've been able to buy all of my software and hardware from the money I get from the games.

As for Dragonmania/Dragon-X that some even laughed at, thanks to selling it I'm now enjoying a new telescope and a new dtp application.

If you know you've got something good then go for it!

Posted by Bo Fu

14th February, 2007

I have no problem with people selling their own games. It's people selling other people's games that burns my ass.

Posted by Hayo

14th February, 2007

Selling games is cool, you just have to keep in mind advertising those games on the DC is pretty useless, your main target will be little kids and bored housewifes, not hardcore gamemakers.

I myself like to keep it free tho, for me it's more fun to see loads of people enjoy my games than to make a few bucks on people stupid enough to buy my crap. I would only sell a game if it was really really good, my games just look good, which is not enough.

Posted by Hill Gigas

14th February, 2007

Here's the reality: Real gamemakers use a programming language. Aspiring gamemakers use klik products. Some of you may fuss at me for saying that, but even the best klik game could not compete with World of Warcraft, Halo 2, etc.

So for aspiring gamemakers who use klik products, it is MUCH more valuable to give away games for free than it is to charge money. Giving your games away for free will give you twenty times as many players, and that means twenty times as much feedback. Building a fan base and learning how to make players happy in the longrun is much more valuable to the aspiring gamemaker than an extra $10 in pocket.

Posted by David Newton (DavidN)

14th February, 2007

Just something I picked up on while reading Phred's reply - why lump them all together as Klik games? This is talking about outside the community, of course, and it's something that GameFun4U said earlier - the majority of Internet types wouldn't be able to tell a Klik game from other independent titles (provided you don't do anything disastrous like use the default platform movement).

I went the donation route with Special Agent, setting up a link on its site, and received precisely no donations - this is perhaps due to using the Amazon Honor system, which I hadn't realized was quite so Americocentric.

If you can produce something of a high enough quality to get people to pay for it, well done to you!

And a good point by Bo Fu as well. Did anyone ever get in touch with the latest compilation-maker?

Posted by ncsoftware

14th February, 2007

While click games cannot compete with Halo and WOW and so on, we don't have to at all. I do not enjoy playing major titles anymore, they're all the same old boring stuff. On the other hand I do enjoy playing indie games, a lot of them are fun, innovative and original.

Recent studies haves shown that major titles only hold 40% of the market and they have to share the 40% even with low budget games, which could be klik games easily. The other 60% is dominated by indie games, mainly games being sold through websites and in that area some click games already do shine and have their fair piece of the market.

The best thing is that these indie games are winning ground and the big guys are loosing it, some experts claim that in the end they only will hold 10-20% of the market.

I've started out giving away games for free the first few years of my game development adventure. Then realized that my games were good enough to make some revenue, so why not?

I will not make the revenue that WOW or Halo makes and I don't intend to do do so. After all I didn't invest $40,000,000 so I don't expect to make millions. I'm aiming at the casual gamer and there enough of those who like to buy GOOD click games!

If you create something good looking, creative, original and fun to play, your game can do well on the casual gaming market.

Posted by Hill Gigas

14th February, 2007

Hmmm, fair enough. You do have a point in that all of the latest "professional" games from the last few years look alike.

The big companies can't be innovative because too much money is at stake. The home-clickers, on the other hand, can be creative because their only overhead costs involve an afternoon at the computer and a microwave burrito.

Posted by AndyUK

14th February, 2007

It had better be really good or you wont get anywhere. Unless you can find a clever way of making people pay money for a game when they can find an alternative on any of the many freeware sites.

Posted by Green Gnome

14th February, 2007

Why do people pay for overly priced Windows Vista when they could just use Linux and the WinXP they got now for gaming and such?

We have already seen MMO's rising after MMF2 came out. Didn't they just make that new MOO extension and all?

Most people play games from big corporations because they're shoved up to their face and spent tons for advertising. Indie gamers don't get out unless some publisher finds them and actually likes their work. We have seen this happen already.

Some indie gamers just simply got big on their own. Seen RuneScape? At first it was only a few guys working on a simple java game project which simply expanded and is now about second most played MMORPG.

Posted by alastair john jack

15th February, 2007

I think its fine to sell a click game, but I'd only buy it from someone I knew could make a good click game.
Like the Spirit Engine.

Posted by Yai7

15th February, 2007

It would be always great to sell my stuff in the neighbor-hood or local market! ^^

Posted by Nillo

15th February, 2007

I think we should all stick to freeware. If you sell a game, you'll probably get a tiny profit (if any) in exchange for all the fun that players around the globe could've had with it, which is kinda selfish if you ask me. And don't give me the "lots of hard work!" argument - we all know how fun it really is to create klik games, so sharing them with others is a win-win situation. Besides, you'll be famous and people will think you're awesome! What better reward can you get?

Posted by DaVince

15th February, 2007

Selling click games is fine by me, though the game has to be REALLY good and have enough worldwide payment methods if I'd better buy it. Freeware's good, though.

Posted by Assault Andy

15th February, 2007

I think selling click games is fine and I would encourage anyone with the ability to give it a go. As someone mentioned before, Blue Tea Games is a prime example of a successful shareware click game developer:
www.blueteagames.com

I am currently trying to produce some shareware games, I hope I can be sucessful

. I think people are right here aswell, it's all about the quality of the game, not what it's made with. MMF doesn't leave any watermarks that lead you to believe that it's made with fusion, unlike a program like RPGmaker or Gamemaker with it's loading screen.

Posted by Steve Harris

15th February, 2007

Spot on Andy.

It's interesting to see everyones different opinions.

Posted by feldmesser creations

15th February, 2007

What most of you don't realise is that some games can't be sold. Some of us here use freeware applications and/or student versions of pro software, heck, some are even using cracked material. And then they use 'em to make their media and stuff it in their games. well, just to let you know, that kind of game is fine as an amateur freebie but not at all legal if you want to sell it. very few klik games are actually worth selling... however if you acquire the rights to all the software you use or you simply make it all in klik programs then go on and try selling. but don't be surprised if it fails, this is more of a friendly community than a business playground.

Posted by MJK

15th February, 2007

Of course it's completely ok - every developer can freely choose whether to try to get 0 bucks, 5 bucks, 20 bucks or 1000 bucks from their game, and the only thing other people can do is to buy it or not to buy it, but there is no question is it "right" or "wrong" thing to do. It's the right way whenever the developer feels so.

One of the most important points in this discussion was already made my Hayo: TDC community doesn't have anything to do with selling a click game. Here are some 100 (?) users around, while your game should have to have tens of thousands of downloads around the net to get the critical mass behind it so that it can yield enough registerations.

If Clickteam products would offer some mobile platform support (cell phones and palmtops), this would open a huge new market for creative clickers to do even some remarkable profit out of their games.

Posted by Green Gnome

15th February, 2007

"If Clickteam products would offer some mobile platform support (cell phones and palmtops), this would open a huge new market for creative clickers to do even some remarkable profit out of their games."

In theory it should be possible to make GBA games on MMF.

Posted by Del Duio

15th February, 2007

I was replaying Lyle in Cube Sector last night. I'd say that'd be the one click game so far that I would have bought.

I wish you could make GBA games with MMF, I just think it'd take coding up the ass to do it right.

Posted by X_Sheep

15th February, 2007

I wouldn't buy Lyle in Cube Sector if it were to be sold on CD. I'd definitely buy it if it was for a console though. Now if I only had a console...

Posted by kmhvslj™ (Your Friendly Non-Bot Clicker)

15th February, 2007

I can't likely do much else than repeat what has already been mentioned many times: if you think your game is good enough, then why NOT try to sell it? At the same time I'm pretty amazed how positive answers this interesting question has received here. I also remember when (I was more active in the community) few years ago and even a mention about selling a game made with a Click tool led to HUGE flame wars.

I don't really see why Click games should even try to compete with massive commercial products. Mostly stuff made with MMF is done by very few people as opposed to the paid teams of developers designing games for companies, which only have $$$ in their eyes. Surely a option for hardware acceleration could help MMF games' cause but there are many good examples that would prosper without it. Secret Agent, games made by groups such as FAIND, Natomic...

It is possible to create great games if you have fantastic ideas and you are able to make them work. Good graphics are a plus but you don't necessarily need 3D polygon-mesh-blahblah graphics to create a fun game. Then again well done graphics do not save a game if it otherwise very boring and full of annoying bugs. In the early 90s people (at least some of them, eh) paid for PC and Amiga games which were even pretty expensive in high street shops as compared to today's £17.99 (postage included) from play.com. Sure, times have changed but if you've got a good combination in the game you have worked on for months or even years, why not give it a try? Nowadays it is very easy to set up a online store and have someone else process the credit card orders. If you're not a cheapskate (in terms of wanting every single penny to your own chest), 10-15% provision from the game price surely doesn't hurt much?

Setting the suitable can be a pretty hard task. For an independent game I would hardly pay $19.95 + taxes. Actually there are only two games by independent developers which I thought to be good enough to pay so much, Si Read's New Star Soccer 3 and Positech's Kudos. Very few Click games actually are worth of $20, without mentioning any names of games which are currently sold online... Such games often tend to lack replayability or they just are not interesting enough to keep me hooked and make me pay for them. Then again asking for $5 makes it pretty much a joke. It's as good idea to ask few measly USD for a game which you've worked on for loooong time as to have your 7-year-old little brother create a game with default platform movement and use gradient backgrounds and library MIDIs!

And I have to agree with the need for mobile platform support. There are numerous rubbish mobile games sold that it'd be great to be able to play some Click game with a smartphone. Some marketing IS needed, you won't be able to scrape much money if you don't tell about your game to anyone else than other clickers. Even then the feedback can sometimes be pretty cold especially if a person hates to pay for any computer software or doesn't share your opinion of putting Click games up for sale. Marketing online shouldn't be such a vigorous task anyway. Sure you may have to pay a little for marketing but if you are willing to take the risk to pay what you consider to be reasonable amount for marketing, surely it's possible to increase the sales.

I'm afraid that I won't be able to ever create enough professional game which could be sold for a decent price. Still I keep on dreaming. Any additional money would be good to help me pay my rent and other running costs! You need to be an exceptional talent or have amazing luck to be spotted by some publisher to earn a living from being an independent developer. Still it's like being any not very famous artist or writer, they are all projects. You'll hardly ever have a steady payroll. Almost none sold this month, probably 50 next month if everything umm...clicks together.

(I'm not responsible of eventual typos and spelling errors, too hungry to do any proofreading

)

Posted by Blueberry

15th February, 2007

I don't think Clickteam would ever make a GBA-complier as it's not legal to make GBA-games without a huge license fee. It would be very cool and I'd porbably buy a MMF GBA edition if there was one.

Posted by Del Duio

15th February, 2007

Very few Click games actually are worth of $20, without mentioning any names of games which are currently sold online... Such games often tend to lack replayability or they just are not interesting enough to keep me hooked and make me pay for them. Then again asking for $5 makes it pretty much a joke.

I dunno, I'd think asking for $20 for a click game would be more of a joke than asking for $5. When you consider that I bought the friggin' Morrowind GOTY edition for $19.95, it'd be almost impossible to justify pricing one of your games for the same amount.

Posted by X_Sheep

15th February, 2007

Most casual games are priced $20. If your game can compete with them, I don't see a reason not to sell it for $20.

Posted by Del Duio

15th February, 2007

Yeah, but really how many Click games are as good as Morrowind, Starcraft, or Diablo 2? (Just 3 titles I could think of that are still priced around $20, although they're all older now so of course the price will drop.)

I hope that we could make a game as good as one of those someday, but the chances aren't very high. If one can compete with them, that'd be something!

Posted by s-m-r

15th February, 2007

A lot of great points have been made already, especially in regards to Click vs. traditional retail. However, while keeping the competition in mind, we can still keep our focus optimistic. Here's what we have going for us:

-->considerable online presence
-->worldwide fan base for Click games, generally speaking
-->free instructional tutorials and resources
-->low- to no- monetary cost development cycle
-->free and/or incredibly cheap methods of distribution
-->no deadlines

Anyone else have suggestions?

Once you own MMF, you're completely ready to go, and you can push the resources you have to the hilt.

The "no deadlines" one really makes a big difference...How many companies scramble to release update patches on the day of launch? How many retail games have killer bugs out of the box? Quite a few, unfortunately. A lack of a production deadline can help in that regard; you can spend the time you need to make it right before it's out there.

I've seen or heard of a couple developers using MySpace pages (which are free) or other networking sites, their own websites (starting at like $40 US for a year's service with a decent web host), or the sites like TDC that will host and/or market games for them. I keep thinking about eBay, and how this would be a very, very cool opportunity to have a "buy it now" page for Click games...You would activate a link for a buyer, and they could download it directly from your site. If you pay through PayPal, it's an instant transaction. You could even automate a distribution system, with custom download links for each buyer. And not to mention...no shipping costs!

Why compete with retail when you have a global marketplace itching to play great games literally at your fingertips? You don't HAVE to compete with them. It's that simple.

The solution lies with tapping into a different market. We're not looking for 'hardcore gamers' anyway: the folks stupid enough to throw down $60 US for a game that maxes out their hardware. They look for different types of games.

What does the casual gamer look for? This is a broad category, but you can make some generalizations. Easy-to learn, entertaining games. Length is variable, depending on the genre. Artwork style doesn't need to be completely professional; it just needs to have a definite style. And as steve can attest, it needs a decent, bug-free game engine.

What are some other ways with which folks interested in selling their Click creations can make it happen?

Posted by MJK

15th February, 2007

Del Duio, not all games compete in the same category or from the same players. Starcraft maybe dramatically bigger production, more complex, has better graphics, and so on, but still some much smaller game may attract a certain kind of players (example: little game where you manage a garden and try to make it flourish -> targeted to completely different gaming segment, e.g. for girls in age 8-20) who are willing to pay even relatively high price for this game, if they just have a lot fun with it. In contrast, to them Starcraft would be worth of probably $0.

Posted by Phredreeke

15th February, 2007

I don't think Clickteam would ever make a GBA-complier as it's not legal to make GBA-games without a huge license fee. It would be very cool and I'd porbably buy a MMF GBA edition if there was one.

I'm fairly certain that it's legal to make GBA games, but you'd have to make them from scratch without using Nintendo's development kit.

Don't take my word for it though.

Posted by Del Duio

15th February, 2007

Yeah, that's a decent point MJK. I guess I was trying to think of some cheap-o high production PC games that are available right now in the stores.

S-m-r, That eBay thing is a great idea. For the two games that I myself have for sale, I use PayLoadz.com, which goes directly through PayPal and you're right it's easy, clean, and no shipping fees. It took a little bit to figure it out, but it's stable and reliable for what I need it for now.

I suppose the whole "no deadline" thing is a great thing to think of. I joke when I say that my new one will be done in 2050, but I really COULD take 44 years to make it, should I choose to. Nothing's worse than a rushed game. I won't buy Sacred (for the PC) because I've heard horror stories about the giant amount of bugs throughout it, even with the patches.

I'm actually really happy that there IS a market for click games, pay or free, it's good to know that not everyone nowadays has a hard-on over 3d graphics and etc, whilst taking a dump on good-looking, well-made, 2d projects.

Posted by Dogzer

15th February, 2007

I've seen or heard of a couple developers using MySpace pages (which are free) or other networking sites, their own websites (starting at like $40 US for a year's service with a decent web host), or the sites like TDC that will host and/or market games for them. I keep thinking about eBay, and how this would be a very, very cool opportunity to have a "buy it now" page for Click games...I'm actually really happy that there IS a market for click games, pay or free, it's good to know that not everyone nowadays has a hard-on over 3d graphics and etc, whilst taking a dump on good-looking, well-made, 2d projects.

Del Duio, not all games compete in the same category or from the same players. Starcraft maybe dramatically bigger production, more complex, has better graphics, and so on, but still some much smaller game may attract a certain kind of players (example: little game where you manage a garden and try to make it flourish -> targeted to completely different gaming segment, e.g. for girls in age 8-20) who are willing to pay even relatively high price for this game, if they just have a lot fun with it. In contrast, to them Starcraft would be worth of probably $0.

I suppose the whole "no deadline" thing is a great thing to think of. I joke when I say that my new one will be done in 2050, but I really COULD take 44 years to make it, should I choose to. Nothing's worse than a rushed game. I won't buy Sacred (for the PC) because I've heard horror stories about the giant amount of bugs throughout it, even with the patches.

I agree with you to a point, Adam, but after years and years of making / giving away free enjoyment a lot of people will want to try the next step and attempt to see their stuff.

If you don't know what this section is about, here's a quick explanation. Basically, every Wednesday there will be a topic to discuss or debate on the front page. Readers are invited to submit their own opinions on various matters, but please don't use this as an excuse to insult others based on their opinions. Remember, everyone is entitled to an opinion, regardless of whether you disagree with it.

..It's also beneficial to be nice to people when talking up your game to them. People won't buy as much from jerks as they would from nice folks.

Posted by David Newton (DavidN)

15th February, 2007

Oh. I thought you were being sensible for a minute there.

Posted by Dogzer

15th February, 2007

lol

Posted by Ski

15th February, 2007

We cant all act like we're 50 in our 20's, DavidN

Posted by ncsoftware

16th February, 2007

"Very few Click games actually are worth of $20, without mentioning any names of games which are currently sold online... Such games often tend to lack replayability or they just are not interesting enough to keep me hooked and make me pay for them. Then again asking for $5 makes it pretty much a joke."

Most click games aren't worth $20 at all, I agree. But as for asking $5 being a joke, I disagree with you on that.

You seem to forget one thing, there's a huge market for budget games, priced at $5-$10. I'm always targeting my games at that market and to you that may be a joke but to me it's a good income.

Most stores and online shops have a budget section and those games sell also, lot's of people buy them.

the main reason most commercially aimed click games fail is because they do target the wrong market and have a much to high expectancy. Who says $5 games are a joke? A good number of people around here have that mentality and I'm very glad a lot of clickers tend to overlook the budget game market, that leaves more room for me

Posted by Steve Harris

16th February, 2007

Got to agree with you there Benjamin. BTW I keep seeing you on the TGC forums!

Posted by ncsoftware

16th February, 2007

Yes you do

I'm using FPSC for some of my 3D projects, but I do prefer using MMF, much more stable and fun to use, but no real 3D with it, yet. At the moment it's all MMF again, I've had enough of the way TGC treats it's customer and release buggy after buggy update for their software. They're working on the next version without even properly fixing the old one. For now I'm going to only use MMF and hope TGC will sort out it's mess, but I almost had enough of them and their unfriendly behaviour towards users.

I'm looking for a way to get the 3D projects converted into 2D so I can use MMF for it again. Thing is, it's for an organization that requested 3D, but I'm trying to get around it and create the projects in MMF instead and show them something so cool that will convince them to go the 2D way instead of 3D. With all the cool new features in MMF2, I think I'll stand a good chance.

But that's a different discussion.

Posted by Phredreeke

16th February, 2007

I actually own some commercial klik games. They suck. I know a few of them are actually slightly modified example games!

Posted by Reno

16th February, 2007

I bought "Pac Pack" which contains many rip-offs of pacman.

If you are going to sell click games make the website look proffessional and have lots of images and a short game demo. Time limited if anything.

Posted by axel

16th February, 2007

"If the benefits of going shareware were to outweigh the benefits of freeware, I'd go with shareware" - Daisuke "Pixel" Amaya on shareware

Lol

Posted by kmhvslj™ (Your Friendly Non-Bot Clicker)

16th February, 2007

Sorry if my comment on $5 games sounded offensive. I think I haven't bought any budget games for years. My point of view mainly referred to the fact that some may think that if a game is sold for $5, can it be any good?

Then again I think some have used techniques such as having the option of voluntary donations on their website for the actual game and then they have charged for detailed (electronic) manual/walkthrough.

Nice to get good discussion concerning the subject anyway

Posted by chrilley

16th February, 2007

There was this company here in Sweden selling Click-made games for young children. They were quite the success.

So if you're planning on selling games you made with a click product, make sure you aim for the kids between 4-8 years old, they have much less expectations than Quake n00bs.

Posted by chrilley

16th February, 2007

Luckily Click tools are excellent for making good education games.

Posted by RenatoDep

16th February, 2007

I completely agree with Gamefun4U, I will just make a brief annoucement when my game is released to the klik community, but thats about it. I'm going to seek out publishers out there for the game.

Posted by Ski

16th February, 2007

My game will most likely be previewed here but I doubt available for Download here.

Posted by steve

16th February, 2007

Posted by Assault Andy

16th February, 2007

If anyone does make some shareware with a clickproduct in the future, It's fine to list it here on our downloads, however that's not the main place to list it at. To be big in shareware\casual game dev you need to have your game listed on a big portal such as Yahoo Games or published by Big Fish Games. If I release some shareware I will definitely not expect anyone on here to buy it, bar one or two people. I'd just release it here to show people what I've been working on recently. The real money is on shareware portals.

Posted by X_Sheep

17th February, 2007

Hmm Blue Tea Games' latest game isn't made with Multimedia Fusion, is it? Because it raped my computer.

Posted by ben mercer

17th February, 2007

Selling klik games is fine. If you have got together a little team of devs to make a really great game, release it as shareware and make it more than $5.

If you are independant and you've made yourself a great little game then you should also go ahead and sell it, but keep the price low. Keep it low enough that people will think "ah well, its only $(x)". You want most people to play your game and not be put off by the price tag.

That said, you really shouldn't go around selling your first few games. Your first few games can be fun to play but will generally be patchy. You know when something feels right, but you don't really know how to get it right. They may seem pretty cool to you, but by the time you're an experienced kliker they will feel like crap. So wait until you can confidently turn out something really good.

Posted by Phredreeke

18th February, 2007

There was this company here in Sweden selling Click-made games for young children. They were quite the success.

De prickiga spelen?

Posted by steve

21st February, 2007

X_Sheep: My latest game was made in C++ using the PTK Engine actually. My next title will be in MMF2, ready in ~6 months.

I encourage programmers to release and sell their klik games. It is a good learning experience none the less, especially if going down the commercial route is right for you.

As for the game price and crappy games in general: Let's just say it's like natural selection. The bad games will not sell over a few copies and die out while the good ones will continue to live through the years.

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