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New Game: Ivory Springs
News posted 22nd May, 2009 by Rob Rule  
Creator of Noitu Love 2, Joakim Sandberg aka Konjak released one of his unfinished game projects yesterday, under the name Ivory Springs. Despite being unfinished the game boasts his trademark visual professionalism and reliable gameplay and is well worth a look.


In Konjak's words: Here's a project I quit on long ago to instead make Chalk. For some reason at the time I felt that having aesthetics similar to Cave Story was a good idea, or it was subliminal from maybe having played the game recently.


Thanks to Nim for bringing the news to our attention.


Click here to visit Konjak's site and download Ivory Springs




Posted by W3R3W00F 22nd May, 2009

Eh, it was kinda fun. Not terribly addictive, and it didn't keep me playing through the whole demo, it was alright.
 
Posted by Mr G 22nd May, 2009

The gfx were nice and that's all the nice I can give
 
Posted by Ski 22nd May, 2009

Glorious graphics but the gameplay didnt seem as fluent as Konjak's other games. Still enjoyed it over 95% of TDC submissions though.
 
Posted by Mkingy 22nd May, 2009

Kinda enjoyed it. Was abit annoying that it reset from gamepad to keyboard every level though :/
 
Posted by Asholay 22nd May, 2009

Played right the way through and was gutted it ended... great gfx, nice level design, well made.
 
Posted by Rikus 23rd May, 2009

I still dont know why he stopped submitting his games here, I know he comes here every now and then
 
Posted by alastair john jack 23rd May, 2009

It is kind of sad that all the highly talented MMF users don't submit stuff here. Would be nice to have some quality games in the community.
 
Posted by 3kliksphilip 23rd May, 2009

This is a beginner's place. It's not for talented game designers, as they can go and get more publicity else where. This place encourages new people to make games.
 
Posted by Rikus 23rd May, 2009

Darn you Philip for making me disagree with you

I think that when you move from new to experienced there is no reason why you would stop posting your games here, unless you are afraid of some of the comments people might post on your game.

I think it is a shame that in the event you still visit this place then take that 1 min and upload your game to the site so we can all discuss the game together then instead going to there persons own personal blog/site. Just my opinion dont hurt me
 
Posted by Muz 23rd May, 2009

Well, Nifflas submitted Knytt Stories here if that counts for anything
 
Posted by Ski 23rd May, 2009

Even then that was very reluctantly

"I think that when you move from new to experienced there is no reason why you would stop posting your games here"

I think there is. Experienced game makers don't get the feedback they're looking for from new comers to the hobby. Perhaps they'll get a little, but if they show their work to people in the same league they'll know if what they've done is good or not, to the last minor detail (See Tigsource creative forums for example). New comers to the hobby (80% of TDC) are impressed by particle effects or a platform game with cliché zombies in it.
 
Posted by Rikus 23rd May, 2009

Auch. I think I hold more value to the creative members in here (all 100% of them).
 
Posted by AndyUK 23rd May, 2009

Generally speaking the feedback is pretty bad on TDC. I would go so far as to say 97.535% of TDC members don't know how to provide proper feedback!
But I don't know if thats all they're looking for when they release their games.

It's probably just a case of not being bothered to release them on every website they happen to visit. TDC being one of many indie game sites out there.

Or maybe they're scared away by all the games with Zombies in them.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 23rd May, 2009

I know that if I saw a zombie IRL I'd be 78% petrified.
 
Posted by AndyUK 23rd May, 2009

I agree with you 94%
 
Posted by Rob Rule 23rd May, 2009

I agree with your points over 95.45 of TDC's other points.
 
Posted by OMC 23rd May, 2009

As much as we want TDC to be a home for advanced game developers and beginners alike, the fact is that the audience just isn't very wide here. We have skilled users, but the rest get caught in petty arguments and comment with unnecessary harshness. The reason people leave this place is indirectly related to the fact that people don't understand why they leave.
 
Posted by Emerson 24th May, 2009

This game feels like a fusion of Cave Story and Noitu Love 2. I really liked it. =/
 
Posted by Hayo 24th May, 2009

Like Andyuk said, there's no point to submit a good game on TDC. It's not cool to put a lotta work in a great game, and then submit it here only to see little shits with anime avatars piss you off with demented comments. One day I will make a good game, and I won't submit it here.
 
Posted by Ski 24th May, 2009

Hahahaha this is sadly very true.
 
Posted by Rob Rule 24th May, 2009

I disagree that there's no point in submitting games here. I spend my professional life getting either torn apart or accoladed by the national press and TV critics for my creative work - if you're submitting your creative efforts to the big wide world you've got to man up and accept that not everyone is going to 'get' it, lots of irrelevant criticisms will be made and a lot you will consider unfair and missing the point. I read your replies to Kazuma's comments on Santaman and his Iced Muffins and thought you were being understandably defensive, and that his comments weren't actually that bad.

It can be hard as an artist to grow a thick skin to those who don't even take a proper look at what you create, but if you can learn to do so you'll take a load off your shoulders for sure. Submitting to TDC as well as other places will increase your audience and the amount of people who apprecaite your work, simple as that. That's the only important point.
 
Posted by Marko 24th May, 2009

I don't really care if i get negative feedback, since it doesn't change why i made things the way i did and won't alter my opinions of the people giving feedback. 9 times out of 10 i agree anyway, i'm man enough to know if i've done a good or crap job or not.

And i think experienced game makers can get some really useful feedback from newbies and casual game makers, it just happens to be different to the type of feedback they'd get from fellow 'experts'. Good games will appeal to nearly all gamers, whether they like the genre or not you can still appreciate whether a game has got it right or not.

Imagine if car manufacturers only showed off their latest models to other experts at rival car firms? I would guarantee they'd come up with something the mass-market would not be looking for, even though the average member of the mass-market wouldn't know how to change an oil-filter! Doesn't make their opinion any less valid or not.
 
Posted by Rikus 25th May, 2009

Yep case in point looking at Hayos latest game 95% of the feedback he got was very constructive and there were even some bugs reported. There will always be the person who will be negative but thats the case with everything you can't make everyone happy. But still the comments hayo got is still a perfecty good example on why authors should submit their game to tdc.
 
Posted by Hayo 25th May, 2009

HAND ME A BUCKET!

Let me put it this way. When I don't care about a game, when I can't give positive constructive feedback, when I can't give it 4 stars or more, I will ignore it. There is no point, for nobody, to give something a "meh". Which happens a lot here.

Another thing I would like to point out, for the 8th time, is that I was not talking about my own situation. I was explaining why professionals don't submit their games here. They don't need to increase their audience because it's massive already and they don't need 14 year olds going "well, not much to this, liked the music tho". They also don't need witty advise on how to deal with comments. They also don't need losing in GOTW/GOTM polls to incrowd joke games.

As for me, there's hardly a point to submit my crap here as I hate 80% of the people on this planet and hate any form of feedback. I can't believe people when they praise me, can't believe them when they bash me. I submit because people expect me to.

Don't get me wrong, TDC is a nice community site, but it IS the kindergarten of click. A conservative kindergarten. The design is shaky, some of the admins can't write their way out of a paper bag, most members are not very good at their hobby (yet) and there is hardly any attention for moving on.




 
Posted by Marko 25th May, 2009

You're right, there is no point in id software submitting their games to TDC.

I do think that it is worth telling someone where they are going wrong with their games though, it helps them get better. No feedback could be confused with people being lazy about giving feedback, or the community feeling more like a 'klik' where no-one else is welcome to join or contribute games.
 
Posted by Hayo 25th May, 2009

Thank you for explaining what feedback is for. I totally changed my mind now.
 
Posted by Ski 25th May, 2009

Haha, anyone would think you've only been here for a year Hayo.
 
Posted by Marko 25th May, 2009

Nice sarcasm Hayo
Comment edited by Mark Radon on 5/25/2009
 
Posted by Hayo 25th May, 2009

Almost nicer than yours I would say.
 
Posted by Marko 25th May, 2009

I wasn't
 
Posted by Marko 25th May, 2009

I am always calm
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 25th May, 2009

I have to agree with Radon- feedback is a great thing, bad or good. By giving feedback members will start looking for ways to improve their games. Just like you would in bowling- it's fun, but at the start you're probably not too good at it, so you take advice, and get better. Whereas ignoring the game and not giving feedback will leave people without a guideline. It's like throwing some little kid into a pool and expecting him to swim, which is a bad example.

If the game doesn't appeal to you, don't download it. If you DO download it, the least you can do is leave feedback, constructive critisism, and advice. That way, if they take the advice, they'll improve, and hopefully make better games overtime and submit them to TDC!

My two cents.
 
Posted by Hayo 25th May, 2009

Yes, feedback is gooood. I like to get feedback from people with a brain. Now where do I see feedback on this site? Most comments I see are either "thats so awesome!!!!" or "meh, not much fun really".

Which is why the people who are good at this (good clickers, not fucking ID) don't post their games here.
 
Posted by Ski 25th May, 2009

"Now where do I see feedback on this site? Most comments I see are either "thats so awesome!!!!" or "meh, not much fun really"."

Sadly so true It's the same case in the review section, too. High marks handed out freely, no comparison made to previous reviews to check if what they're saying is actually accurate or fair.
Comment edited by -Adam- on 5/25/2009
 
Posted by Marko 25th May, 2009

Alot of feedback on TDC is in the vein you've mentioned, though there is mostly alot more ellaboration than you imply with the feedback. Not sure what adam means by the reviews section remark "no comparison made to previews (previous?) reviews to check if what they're saying is actually accurate or fair." - why would a reviewer need to read previous reviews before making their own mind about the game they are scoring? That would only influence their score, which nothing should except for the reviewer's taste, their experience and the game itself.

I can't deny some reviews are clearly written by novice writers/gamers (or both!), however this site is The Daily Click, a place for beginners and experienced people alike, and not such publications as Edge magazine. Those reviews i usually only quickly read, paying more attention to those reviewers i trust.
 
Posted by Hayo 25th May, 2009

Ok, so the fact the really talented clickers don't post their work here remains a mystery. It is not because 80% of the members is retarded, it's not because there's a flood of irrelevant games on the front page, it is not because half of the front page has an overdose of exclamation marks and a lack of punctuation, it's not because half of the reviews are demented. They must have missed the existence of this site somehow.
 
Posted by Marko 25th May, 2009

What are you on? They don't post on here because they are members of communities that are far more advanced skill-wise than most people on here, probably. That doesn't mean "80% of (these) members are retarded", or "half the reviews are demented", or anything else you've claimed. You'll probably find most experienced clickers are willing to lend tips to those of us not as skilled as them, rather than call them retarded.

Perhaps you need to work out why you're still posting on TDC if you think you're above the majority on here, Hayo? I've met a hell of alot of good people on here who are not as good (atleast, not yet, in my opinion) as me at coding/design/graphics etc, yet i have nothing against them or their opinions.
 
Posted by Ski 25th May, 2009

Because he's been on TDC for a long time and doesn't like to see how it's turning out.
 
Posted by Rob Rule 25th May, 2009

Blocking out the synchophantic s**t stirrings of Adam for a minute (let's face it, easily done), I get Hayo's points and although I think he's an over-cynical kind of talent, I agree with much of what he says in principal. I disagree that what he submits is crap or that because the site lacks high-end critical integrity from every member there's no point in submitting - by his admission there are some on the site that do crit well.

I like TDC, but if I spent as much complaining about it as you two do then I'd think myself a fool for wasting my time here doing so. I'm not sure what you get out of it really.

Anyway, it's alright that you're wasting your own time and energies on this argument but I'm starting to feel like you might be wasting mine too, so I'm leaving it here and am off to frolic in some flowers to Neil Young's Harvest Moon or something. Good luck everyone!
 
Posted by Marko 25th May, 2009

Enjoy the frolicing Mr. Rule.

I also see where Hayo is coming from, i just don't understand what else he's expecting - from what Rikus et al has said in the past, this site has always been for beginners as well as experienced Clickers, and it still is.
 
Posted by Ski 25th May, 2009

"I like TDC, but if I spent as much complaining about it as you two do then I'd think myself a fool for wasting my time here doing so"

Yes, but then you're not going to be complaining about your beautiful, pretty boy self, are you?

Don't run out of hair gel.
 
Posted by Hayo 25th May, 2009

All I did...

was explain...

"It is kind of sad that all the highly talented MMF users don't submit stuff here. Would be nice to have some quality games in the community."

And now I indeed start wondering what I am doing here. And I'd personally take Sleeps With Angels over Harvest Moon anytime.


 
Posted by Marko 25th May, 2009

Master of Puppets, anyone??
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 25th May, 2009

I really don't know what brings me back to TDC, but it just does. I guess it's just a nice place to visit.

I wish more professional people would their games to TDC, but I guess some would rather go for the bigger sites like TIGSource. I guess TDC isn't good enough for them? Idk. I think it'd be cool if TDC accepted ALL types of indie games, like 3D, RPGmaker, Construct, Game Maker, flash, whatever. We might get a larger audience this way!

Thinking out loud, sorry.
 
Posted by Hayo 25th May, 2009

It does accept all types of indie games already, but people hardly submit non-clickgames because the audience is very click-oriented.
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 25th May, 2009

Yeah, guess you're right. Hmmm... There's got to be a way to attract bigger audiences. Wish I knew how.
 
Posted by Hayo 25th May, 2009

I am running TGF2/MMF2 workshops on highschools, maybe that will give us some fresh clickers.
 
Posted by Rob Rule 25th May, 2009

Sleeping With Angels is better than Harvest Moon, but for frolicking? I dunno... perhaps I'll make a thread sometime. Obviously Old Man is his highest point. Oh and... nah, I don't think I can decide the 'best', he's hit gold too many times. I respect the man's conduct as much as his music.


P.S can anyone decipher the argument behind this intelligent piece of logic?

"Yes, but then you're not going to be complaining about your beautiful, pretty boy self, are you?"


Comment edited by Robert Rule on 5/25/2009
 
Posted by Ski 25th May, 2009

A picture tells a thousand words.
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 25th May, 2009

I seriously need to tell people about TDC. Staple some papers to Telephone poles around town oughta do it. lol
 
Posted by Rob Rule 25th May, 2009

Yes, if you're immature and naive enough to judge someone by their looks. I absolutely love the idea that you think that what you've said can reflect or be an insight on anyone but yourself.
 
Posted by Ski 25th May, 2009

Oh you're perfectly right. You shouldn't judge someone by their looks, but the way you are in this thread just confirms my opinions made about you, and by that I'll make acceptions to that rule
 
Posted by Rob Rule 25th May, 2009

Nope, you're still not making sense. You're just spewing trite soundbites and hoping something will have an effect. It won't. If you did know me then you'd know that I'm not going to get wound up by your dross. Your point was:

"Yes, but then you're not going to be complaining about your beautiful, pretty boy self, are you?

Don't run out of hair gel."

In response to my saying I wouldn't complain about TDC as much as you would. Simple.

Winky smilies aren't going to help, either. For as long as you act pitifully you'll fail to make an impact. Hope the penny drops for you soon.


 
Posted by Dr. James MD 25th May, 2009

... Hairgel?
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 25th May, 2009

I love hairgel. Sometimes.
 
Posted by Dr. James MD 25th May, 2009

I bought some to use for a wedding but generally my hair stays in its own shape.
 
Posted by Rob Rule 25th May, 2009

I don't wear it myself (don't need to) but it serves as a surprisingly nutritious snack.
 
Posted by Ricky 25th May, 2009

what!?
 
Posted by Rob Rule 25th May, 2009

Times are hard.
 
Posted by W3R3W00F 26th May, 2009



It doesn't stay in place for long, but I can do some pretty cool stuff withit.
 
Posted by Muz 26th May, 2009

Lol, how did I miss the big flame war?

Guys, guys. If you don't like TDC, go to another site. It's not like it's the only klik site left. If you want good front page news, there's still Toastface, which seems to highlight the best in the community.

You can't have everything. TDC is like high school. Anyone who submits things is like a former alumni who's just being polite.

Problem is that if good games get 5 stars.. where do massively epic games go? It's off the scale. The epic games are far beyond the capabilities of most members, so the best they can offer is praise. No feedback, just plain praise.

There's approximately 4,000 downloads on TDC. Only around 30 even qualify for a front page on TIGSource. If you want better front page stuff, then start submitting better games. That said, TDC is still a place for first time klikers to submit their first game, so we still have to offer them encouragement.
Comment edited by Muz on 5/26/2009
 
Posted by AndyUK 26th May, 2009

I'm pretty sure the people at TIGSource miss some good games from TDC. A good example is bonesaw which is much better than some of the games that make it onto TIGS.

Lets try not to assume anything that makes it onto TIGS is great and anything that doesn't is crap.
 
Posted by Ski 26th May, 2009

"I'm pretty sure the people at TIGSource miss some good games from TDC. A good example is bonesaw which is much better than some of the games that make it onto TIGS. "

Nope, people on Tigsource love Bonesaw, it's mentioned a lot, and it has it's own space in the TIGsource Indie Brawl game. Xerus is also quite popular on TIGS.

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=4173.0

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=2444.0
Comment edited by -Adam- on 5/26/2009
 
Posted by AndyUK 26th May, 2009

I guess that was a pretty terrible example then...
 
Posted by Marko 26th May, 2009

I used to use hair gel, now i use a bit of wax, what's the problem with it? Girls love a guy with decent hair. Well, the pretty ones do anyway.

P.S. i agree with Muz (again)
 
Posted by Hayo 26th May, 2009

"If you don't like it, you can GET OUT"

I don't know why I have to keep stating this, but I never said I don't like TDC. I just said I don't think it is as great as some people make it out to be, and that I believe that's the reason some people don't post their games here. HOW HARD IS THAT?
 
Posted by TheoX 27th May, 2009

This is a decent game. Played it through on normal and hard. Wish there was more to the "alpha".
 
Posted by Muz 27th May, 2009

Nobody ever really said TDC was a major indie site We just wondered what happened to Konjak.. it's not like he's never submitted anything here. And he never got particularly bad comments either. And apparently he's been here very recently.
 
Posted by Hayo 27th May, 2009

I...can't dumb it down any further.
 
Posted by Dustin Gunn 28th May, 2009

"Problem is that if good games get 5 stars.. where do massively epic games go? It's off the scale. The epic games are far beyond the capabilities of most members, so the best they can offer is praise. No feedback, just plain praise."

Average games on TDC get 5 stars. Great ones get 4 stars. I call it the "A for Effort" effect, where after a game's quality leaves the rest of TDC behind they start trying to judge it professionally, whereas before they're incredibly generous.
 
Posted by Muz 28th May, 2009

Seems to be an expectation thing. If you expect nothing, and get something, 5 stars. If you expect a masterpiece and get a really, really good game, 4 stars. If you expected the best game in the world, and get something which isn't the best in the world, 3 stars.
 


 
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Rob Rule
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