The Daily Click

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Project Started:	11th August, 2009	Last Update:	15th July, 2010
Project Owner:	vertigoelectric	Project Members:	lease Arkhanno
Project Type:	Very Hard Platformer	Project Progress:
More Info:	http://fangame.vertigofx.com	Faves:	17

I've come to realize...

Posted 7th Sep 09, by vertigoelectric

...the common folks here at TDC just do not understand a game like Fangame. That's not an insult or anything. That's just the way it is. I commonly read comments implying that it is "too hard" or that I should have "more saving" (anything to make it easier).

Unfortunately, this means that I cannot seem to get much helpful feedback from you guys, especially if comments usually refer to how they kept getting killed too much and then blame it on something within the game that they decide must be a "design flaw".

This game is MEANT to KILL YOU. A LOT. Most people here just can't handle that. It's just "not fun" to them...

Some of you have provided some really helpful feedback, pointing out a few bugs or offering certain suggestions in various ways... but those helpful pieces of feedback seem to be few and far between, especially amongst the very little feedback I get anyway.

Am I complaining? No. I started this project knowing it would be misunderstood.

Posted by AndyUK

7th September, 2009

I just think they're trying to give you advice but the truth is most people just think games like I wanna be the guy are a bad concept in general.

Tons of ridiculously hard to avoid traps can be fine so long as the player understands they're supposed to die loads.

That doesn't mean the game has to be really hard though, you can easily make loads of traps that require memorising patterns, hand to eye coordination or just reaction based that aren't over the top.
Comment edited by AndyUK on 9/7/2009

Posted by Jon C-B

7th September, 2009

i understand that the game is meant to be difficult. What i meant in my suggestion was that it most people here won't be able to reach areas and test them if they cant even get there.

Posted by vertigoelectric

8th September, 2009

I have special beta-testing controls in certain beta releases (such as a noclip mode) so that my testers can quickly move to any location in the game with ease to test specific areas for bugs.

...but anyway... after all this time and hard work, maybe Fangame just won't work out after all.

Thanks for the feedback. Regardless, I'm left feeling quite discouraged.

Posted by Johnny Look

8th September, 2009

I had the perfect understanding that Fangame was supposed to be hard, being based on IWBTG which is also stupidly difficult. However you could still take into account the suggestions we gave you about the graphics. If you look carefully, the graphics in IWBTG use two different resolutions, simply because it's meant to be a parody on 8bit and 16 bit games, and yet for some reason they go well together, something that doesn't happen in your game, for some reason.
Cloning a game that isn't that popular to start with doesn't seem like a bright idea to me, unless you're looking to get some experience. Personally I believe making the game more accessible would make it stand out from IWBTG, hence why I complained so much about the difficulty in my review.
I insist you shouldn't give up on your game, at least finish it up even if you don't make as many levels as you wanted to.

Posted by vertigoelectric

8th September, 2009

"and yet for some reason they go well together, something that doesn't happen in your game"

Great. So now what? What am I supposed to do about it at this point?

Posted by Johnny Look

8th September, 2009

What I and everyone have been telling you, make sure every sprite and tiles have the same resolution and scale.

Just because IWBTG have graphics ripped from many 8bit and 16bit games (with a purpose) with mixed resolutions, doesn't mean your game must look the same way, specially since the result looks good on IWBTG but isn't working out with your game.

Posted by vertigoelectric

8th September, 2009

well i can deal with making the tiles and sprites the same resolution, but the bosses are going to more than likely mostly be scaled up quite a bit.

I edited the tiles in zone 2 more:

I'm not sure what to do about that statue, though. The one you pointed out.

Posted by Matthew Wiese

8th September, 2009

I personally think you should continue with this, I think the sprites are fine, the gameplay is fine. It's just that most of the people here are focused on original types of games. We kinda get scared when a new idea arises that seems too strange. Also, I was looking around the IWBTG forum, and it seems there's a bunch of people who wnat to make their own IWBTG games. Your not alone vertigo, keep at it, and I'm sure people will like your game.

@Johnny Look I don't mean to be a jerk, but IWBTG was actually very popular. In part due to the LPs of the game made it amazingly popular.

Posted by Johnny Look

8th September, 2009

yeah I know IWBTG is fairly popular, it's not the first time I've heard about it, it's just that I don't think it's popular enough to deserve clones and remakes. And no you are not being a jerk.

also I disagree with this part "We kinda get scared when a new idea arises that seems too strange."

Games with unique ideas are always well received, but sometimes the games are flawed and that's enough to put some people off. I don't think this game brings any new ideas, over the past 20 years or so the idea of making very hard/close to impossible games has been done to death, and in this case it's a clone of another game.
That doesn't mean it's a bad thing, it's just that this game isn't for everyone.
Personally I love very hard games, as long as it's challenging it's interesting, the problem is both this one and IWBTG have gone too far imo, but at the same time it's what make them stand out from countless other platformers.

vertigoelectric: That looks quite a lot better, but what statue are you talking about ?

Posted by vertigoelectric

8th September, 2009

This statue that someone pointed out in my previous devlog:

I got this statue directly from a Metroid screen shot. Now that I've redone the rest of the tiles, it stands out more (it's low resolution). I suppose maybe I could just redraw it by hand, but... I dunno.

Posted by Matthew Wiese

8th September, 2009

When i said we get scared I was trying to say that people here usually like game with original gfx and concepts, since fangame is a IWBTG clone, most people wouldn't like it. Same with Mario fangames with ripped gfx, we don't like those either.

Posted by Eternal Man [EE]

8th September, 2009

Or you could try a slight slight blur effect, dividing each "low-res pixel" into four.

About the game, I really like the concept, but what makes me not play it is that tere is no learning curve whatsoever. It would be immensely more rewarding if you started out moderately hard and built up the difficulty along the way.

Posted by Matthew Wiese

8th September, 2009

The statue is fine, at least I think so. I also like the new boxes for when the tubes connect, in your first screenshot.

Posted by vertigoelectric

9th September, 2009

Well, the thing is, it's extremely hard for some people, but not quite so hard for a few others. I, for example, don't find it very hard. My project members also don't find it very hard. Most of my friends in real life find it near impossible.

This game is tailored towards those few who do not find it "impossibly hard". I didn't explain that very well in my descriptions. Also, it's a small audience, I know.

Posted by Eternal Man [EE]

9th September, 2009

One reason why you don't find it hard is that you are the designer and creator, you've played the segments countless times, and your mind knows those tiny tiny details from design that makes it easier. It's the most classic design problem in game making. People almost always make their games too hard since they feel during development that they are too easy, but that only comes from their creating it! And in this case, when you strive to make a really hard game, it comes out surreal hard from the start.

Don't take my opinion as critique, it's just facts that you need to remember if you want to broaden your audience.

Posted by alastair john jack

9th September, 2009

Indeed Eternal man.
vertigoelectric is not interested in catering to people who have limited experience in how this particular engine works. I felt the iwankbetheguy actually did a better job at introducing the way the game worked in a fun way that still jabbed you with its rediculous difficulty.

Note that is still possible to place some sort of learning curve in a game that is all about killing the player.
Yes you can start it at insanely difficulty level, but you could also start it at a painful difficulty.

Posted by vertigoelectric

10th September, 2009

I'm not the only one who thinks what we have so far isn't very difficult...

clearly, "IWBTG" did a better job at everything that I am trying to do.

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