what the hell is this problem with I hate "default movement" - it's just puritanical "i am holier than shit stuff" - if the game graphics are decent and more importantly the concept and ideas are good then stuff how the character moves - maybe we should rename this site as the "DAILY HOW YOU MOVE YOUR HERO" - stfu
to start press any key ...... where's the ANY KEY??
Default platform movement has some annoying bugs in it, as said by steve in the comments of DistantJ's game. There are workarounds to some of them, however. You can use obstacles for the sides instead of the frame to fix the wall-climbing bug. To fix the ceiling-hanging one I believe you can use a flag to toggle player control over a single gameplay loop. It is possible to add stuff like double-jumps and bouncing off enemies in a default engine, but honestly if you're going to spend that much time on it you might as well make a custom engine. It's not a matter of being "puritanical." If it doesn't play well, then someone will point it out. Good graphics can't cover up horrid gameplay for very long, however an interesting plotline or some unique ideas can keep people playing despite a mediocre engine.
In Mario's Adventure, I used a modified default platform engine, with moving platforms, the above bugs corrected, plus bouncing off enemies for the last completed level. (I kept in the ceiling-hanging bug intentionally for a level when you are hallucinating with reversed controls so you could weirdly jump up by walking off the side of the platform while hanging.)
"Omg. Where did they get the idea to not use army guys? Are they taking drugs?" --Tim Schafer on originality in videogames
The problem with default movement is that it's buggy as hell and gets in the way of gameplay. It also has a distinctive feel about it that's distracting when you've played as many shitty klik games as some of us have. It's usually a fairly good indicator of how much effort has gone into a game. If you can't be arsed making a custom engine, then you've probably just made another mario clone and navigating the mouse to the little grey X is likely to prove a lot more fun.
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DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
1st May, 2006 at 10:44:40 -
Platform Movement isn't too good and makes people think you are lazy for creating your own, more flexible movement. I don't really mind sometimes, but some people really freak out and are like "OMG DEFUALT PLATFORM MMOVMENT!" You can safely ignore the people who make TOO big a point outt of it, but don't ignore the people who just say something like "you might have tried platform movement".
Is is wrong to want to play some decent games? We know from Experience that games suffer pretty badly with default engines enabled.
what the hell kind of quote is "i am holier than shit stuff"
who said that?
The default movement is not supposed to be the no.1 choice when making games, you are supposed to use the event editor to create movement in your games. That option is there for people who are new to get a game going before they learn to use the program properly.
Moonbird; are you for real!? you think that graphics are more important than the core engine of a game: background collision detection, movement, glitches/bugs, momentum, character ability and controllability - you obviously know almost nothing about game design or it's history to make such an ignorant comment.
Without a smooth engine the game is non-existant just like the majority of the half-assed lazy, crap that we see time and time again here.
The fangame/"tribute" makers are a great example of what happens when retards are let loose with default movement systems.
"Hey guys! Look what I made all by myself!!!"
If a game is poorly programmed, with or without good graphics then it will turn out shit, and this has been proven for years and years thanks to default movements.
The movement is more importiant then the game, concept and idea's come next, then sound and graphics. If you want a good story, its a great addition to the game, but games are for playing and having fun, and you cant do that with an engine as shitty as the default platform movement. If you want a good concept and good idea's, go read a book. Period.
So I can jump about smoothly and duck and dive etc... and that makes a game good? Er ..... sorry I think I'd get tired of that after a while - I would want a reason to want to play the game rather than marvel at your wondrous movement - double period (farts) ... woops sorry ... bit of story there!!
to start press any key ...... where's the ANY KEY??
Movement in the game needs to be smooth and easy to play. The game may be hard, but NOT because of a shit ass engine, and that’s exactly what the platform movement is. A little hint to game design, if you don’t know what makes a game good, then it might not be a good idea to actually make one. Now kindly walk away, being that you are honestly willing to argue a fact that everyone is againced you with. Thanks.
Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
2nd May, 2006 at 08:03:12 -
If you have a crap engine, you will have a crap game. No amount of beautiful graphics is going to make your game fun if the engine sucks. As a generalization, people who cannot code well or are too lazy with click products use default platform movement. It is very noticeable when someone uses default platform movement, all you have to do is feel the annoyances of not being able to jump over walls next to you, or getting your head stuck in roofs.
"If your movement is broken, so is your game. Period."- Jesus help me
What an empty, uncreative one liner - so you're saying fuck your creative ideas for a game - if your hero sticks to the roof or doesn't jump over a block how you want then you may as well give up?
What an inspiration that is for noobs!! Thanks mate but no thanks - double period - or infinite period.
The point I am trying to make is that there is more to just custom movement in a game - the whole, overall design/concept is pretty important!
I suspect a good idea will hook a player (not involved on this site) if the story is thought out rather than a particular animation sticks to a block
to start press any key ...... where's the ANY KEY??
A good story can only make up for poor gameplay to a limited extent. If the game is a chore to actually play, then I suspect that not many people would want to see it through.
Yes, innovation is important, but just because something is creative doesn't mean that it should not or can not be polished. You aren't supposed to give up; you are supposed note what bugs or aspects of gameplay hurt the experience, and learn how to fix or address them in the future for a more fun game.
Looking at commercial games, some games are fun without needing an elaborate story or innovation (Geo Wars), some keep me interested far longer than I would normally due to characters and story (Final Fantasies), and some meld tight gameplay, innovation, and a compelling story (Psychonauts). Do you have any specific games in mind about you point, moonbird99?
"Omg. Where did they get the idea to not use army guys? Are they taking drugs?" --Tim Schafer on originality in videogames
"The point I am trying to make is that there is more to just custom movement in a game - the whole, overall design/concept is pretty important!"
Really? Your first post looks like you're angry because we don't like the built in movement.
I think most of us understand the different areas of game making. We also know that a game with bad gameplay is rarely saved by it's storyline or design or whatever.
I am currently using a modified default platform movement for Captain of the Guard 2. At first, I had about 10-15 animations and the regular out-of-the box default movement going. These guys are right- it is buggy as all hell. My guy would constantly "hang" weird when next to an edge, unintentionally appear many pixels above where he should be when colliding with a wall on occasion, and also appear to be halfway stuck on some objects when he attacked. It wasn't good at all, even though (in my opinion of course) the graphics are well done, the story is interesting and amusing, and the presentation is pretty good.
So I took the advice of a few TDC members and tried to make my own custom movement- and the result was just awful. Not because the idea of a custom movement is a bad one, just that I suck at making a custom platform movement for what I needed for as complex of a hero that I had everything done for. I also tried the Advanced platform object, and didn't get too far with that either.
What I ended up doing that's working very well so far is I have a small square that constantly follows where the bottom of the hero's feet are. Then for the collision detection, I have it so that both the guy and the square have to be overlapping a backdrop in order to stop the guy from falling through. This has eliminated almost all of the bugs I had earlier when coupled with very skinny platform objects hidden into the scenery. He no longer gets stuck in the walls at all now, and falls as he should when he walks off a platform. (No more "hanging" out over the edge, defying gravity.
So my vote is that the default movement CAN indeed work, depending on what you do with it, and how your levels are set up for him to move around in.
--
"Del Duio has received 0 trophies. Click here to see them all."
"To be a true ninja you must first pick the most stealthy of our assorted combat suits. Might I suggest the bright neon orange?"
DXF Games, coming next: Hasslevania 2- This Space for Rent!
Moonbird if you are having trouble with this simple concept I will attempt to give an analogy to make it more clear;
Imagine the most impressive looking sports car EVER was released to the public but the company forgot to make an engine for it (so they quickly put a Skoda engine in to save time and money) Also the wheels are buckled and it cant actually turn corners either.
Would this car be a success?
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Deleted User
4th May, 2006 at 01:05:53 -
id have to agree with everyone else, the default platform movement takes the quality of a game, and throws it out a window.
I find it very amusing when people "work around" the default platform movement and even compromise fundamental parts of their game design just to keep it in.
The ONLY time the default platform movement can be used is when a game has no obstacles to jump over or any ceilings, walls of any kind or enemies to jump on.
Hey Steve, I'm not sure if you meant me directly but I just wanted to say that no part of my gameplay had to be compromised at all. All I did was change the platform movement of the hero so that it works as it should within the context that already existed (i.e. the game's levels themselves).
If I had to completely re-do the whole thing to go around the default movement, then yeah, you'd have a point there. It's just not what I had to do in this case.
--
"Del Duio has received 0 trophies. Click here to see them all."
"To be a true ninja you must first pick the most stealthy of our assorted combat suits. Might I suggest the bright neon orange?"
DXF Games, coming next: Hasslevania 2- This Space for Rent!
Steve - you make a valid point - the problems people get so stressed about seem to be limited to TWO
1. Sticking to ceilings
2. Need for a run up when jumping a block (even though in real life you would actually need to do this) but then programmers would argue this isn't real life so why not let them just jump through the block - where do we stop??
My point initially was you CAN make a decent game using the default movement - and "older" people on this site could probably provide a list of games that used it it and they are bloody good games.
I agree you can be creative with the movement just as you can with the graphics and story but no way can you slag a game off just because it uses default movement.
(am I allowed to say period - again? with a touch of purple?)
to start press any key ...... where's the ANY KEY??
"2. Need for a run up when jumping a block (even though in real life you would actually need to do this) but then programmers would argue this isn't real life so why not let them just jump through the block - where do we stop??"
There is no problem with needing to "get a run up" to jump over block.
I had my doubts about how much you knew before, or if you are a fake account and this just confirms them. Have you even tested a default platform movement game before?
The problem is that if you continue to hold a direction AND try to jump over an obstacle the character will hit an invisible wall.
Im sure you can see why this would make any game completely useless. (as demonstrated brilliantly in the mario fangame on the front page)
EDIT: i'd just like to say that the default platform movement does not just give you "2 main problems" it causes a chain effect of countless problems when dealing with more complex code such as animation directions that need to be compared or changed at runtime (as the default engine will always force its direction). I could go on but im sleepy now (nerded myself out for the day I think) :\
Don't forget being able to cling to the side of the frame and being able to speed-climb ladders by holding shift. And the difficulty of keeping objects aligned with you because the default movement doesn't synchronize itself with the events in the event editor, so detectors lag behind it.
Also, a custom engine allows for much more customization, and it's a valuable learning experience in programming.
Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
5th May, 2006 at 08:28:30 -
"but no way can you slag a game off just because it uses default movement. "
Games that use default platform movement suck.
Expanding on what RapidFlash said, custom movements allow you to simply add special movement such as double jump, wall jumps, sliding, etc. all with ease. And if you think that the TWO problems which we are 'limited' to are not serious, then maybe you should think again.
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