"Classical liberalism emphasizes free private enterprise, individual property rights, laissez-faire economic policy, and freedom of contract, and opposes the welfare state. Classical liberals support equality before the law and hold that economic inequality, arising naturally from competition in the free market, does not justify forced wealth redistribution. [4] New liberals advocate a greater degree of government influence to protect individual rights (in a broad sense), often in the form of anti-discrimination laws. New liberals support universal education, and many also support welfare, including benefits for the unemployed, housing for the homeless, and medical care for the sick, all supported by progressive taxation."
I really don't see where you're getting your definition of Liberal from, at all.
Personally, I'm not sure I'm much of a Liberal but I'm certainly progressive. I'm a somewhat socialist, and very Utilitarian(the former is probably derived from the latter). I'd probably feel most at home in Sweden.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Maybe you didn't get it before, but my game doesn't reflect my definition of liberalism. It might reflect my opinion on economic liberalism in a very crude and not so serious way.
If I have to get serious tho, I totally dislike the dutch liberal party, and totally dislike nationalist parties. That together formed NationalLiberal, which also was a fake account ran by a friend of mine here in 2003ish.
Then again, it's my game, my hobby and I can do whatever the fuck I want.
Joe - Take your cinema analogy and now imagine that the Director is sitting beside you while you watch countless bad examples of physics and plot holes. Now imagine that you made one comment about the bad physics and he says "Shut up, I know what physics is and you don't". Then he says "I'm a physics teacher and I should know these things" as if it's a checkmate argument. THEN imagine that he runs into another room and slaps a sign on the door, inviting people to discuss physics with him as long as they agree to be branded unstable crybabies.
Exackerly Nim. Personally I think if you invite discussion about politics you shouldn't just go "OH STFU U BABY, GET A LIFE" kind of thing when someone actually takes an interest.
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
2nd August, 2007 at 10:47:23 -
Nim, your example doesn't quite fit. You can't have opinions on physics, because how physics are is just a fact. Ever heard anyone say "oh man, I hate this gravity!" or whatever?
I never wanted to discuss politics in the first place. There is this guy who tells me I don't know what liberals are, I tell him I am fine, he carries on wasting a good thread by saying more stuff I already know so I make a new topic to whine in. As far as the director thing goes, would you go in?
You never wanted to discuss politics yet you create a thread called liberals and post the words "Discuss".
Forgive us for misunderstanding you Hayo.
And anyway, merely we wanted to see where you stood on the liberals thing - if you are a closed book then our mistake, but you can hardly punish an honest question.
I said "in the first place", I had to write a boring essay about the roots of liberalism a couple of years ago, I could have translated it to loose english and post it here if I really wanted to make a point about it or even post links to wikipedia. But seeing I AGREE with his definition of liberalism I don't see the point of discussing it with him. The only point I am making is "YOU ARE UPSET ABOUT A NAME OF A CHARACTER IN A CRAPPY VIDEOGAME". Any other person would probably ignore it.
Joe, the only equivalent of that is that is if I h4x0red the site to contain my own "director's commentary" in Hayo's games.
As hilarious as that would be, I don't see myself going that far.
Hayo, most people aren't going to get that your definition of "Liberal" refers specifically to the Dutch Liberal Party. When releasing a game that will mostly be played by other cultures, especially one using a word that's become a very weighted term, you should find a better analogue for what you're making fun of.
It is your Liberal party that is most likely misusing the word - not us. In Ireland we have the "Progressive Democrats" who aren't really as Progressive and perhaps not as Democratic as they sound from their name.
You shouldn't be encouraging it. If you want to mock the sort of things your Dutch parties get up to, you should have, again, found a better analogue. Your "Liberals" are more like American Republicans.
Also, your farmers look a lot more like American rednecks, which makes it even more confusing. Surely Dutch farmers don't look like that?
It makes me feel uncomfortable playing a game shooting people who share a name with many of the ideologies I believe in. I don't personally think it's a positive trait to shut your brain off and enjoy a game like that.
Yes, you can "do what you want". You can be a total dick to people if you want and believe that rain comes from a giant dragon pissing on us because we stole his dinner. That doesn't make it right.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Okay Hayo, point made. But you didn't have to insult Mr. Roseweave here by suggesting he didn't know what liberalism was and generally talking down to him. I can't believe I'm telling somebody else this instead of somebody telling it me - but improve your manner. I dunno if you're tired or what, but I can understand Roseweave's sense of injustice. God, that sounds so melodramatic.
Roseweave, would you be happy with a patch that changes "NationalLiberal" to "NationalRepublican"? I get the feeling you just want an arguement since you are firing reactionsa at me to things I never said. Did I ever say anybody was misusing the term "liberal"? Nobody is misusing it except me and anybody here who ever said "HAR HAR HAR I HAVE STOCKS IN <insert topic>".
..And I always took Hayo's bad guys in B&H to just be an enemy corporate entity to fight against, nothing more (no offense Hayo). This is kind of taking it far, no?
--
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I'm not really asking him to change anything, just pointing out how silly it is and that he shouldn't do it again.
I think maybe I come off more heavy handed than I sound in my head... unless you bring up something like gay marriage, image based discrimination or transsexualism then I can get pretty vexed.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
"I'm not really asking him to change anything, just pointing out how silly it is and that he shouldn't do it again.
I think maybe I come off more heavy handed than I sound in my head... unless you bring up something like gay marriage, image based discrimination or transsexualism then I can get pretty vexed."
Woah that totally blows me away... for a start pointing is usally a little more discrete than ... that, are you a memeber of the crutch of humanity, by that sense I mean are you swayed in any way by religion? I am sensing religious mannerisms.
Why aren't we crying over the people who use brand names instead of the real names of the object?
Also for someone who can recognise cultural differences, it's amusing you feel you can impose the values of your culture on another person. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some liberals to beat.
"
Also for someone who can recognise cultural differences, it's amusing you feel you can impose the values of your culture on another person."
Where have I done this exactly? And what about him saying that he knows what a Liberal is and I don't?
You're just looking for reasons to make "the opposition" who prides themselves on not being a bigot look like a bigot since it's easier than mounting the real argument. It's an irritating and age-old tactic mostly used by Neo-cons. It's just nasty and not very intelligent.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Yeah, politics are so sad. Who the fuck wants to bother discussing the people who make laws and rule over us? It's not as if it affects our every day lives.
Now MOTORBIKE ACCIDENTS they are AWESOME.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Sorry, you're not getting off that lightly. Oxygen doesn't really have any issues, it simply is. However, sometimes it DOES become an issue, with air pollution, and we SHOULD discuss it.
Using "It's boring" as an excuse not to be interested in the running of your country is lazy and stupid. This kind of apathy does nobody any good - you need to "care" about politicians so you can question what's going on for yourself. People "not caring" about politics is exactly why right wing fundamentalists have so much power, why Bush was re-elected, why the War in Iraq was such a disaster(and probably always would have been).
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
I care about politics, I just don't find it interesting and don't feel the need to talk about it. Also, it is massively unfair and corrupt to the point that I don't give a damn any more, and talking about it makes no difference.
Liberalism. Well, liber comes from either greece or latin (actually both, if I don't remember wrong) and can mean children, books or freedom, all three I could describe as "delicious".
Anyway, I voted for the first time last autumn. I wanted to vote a liberal party in our local level, because we are having IKEA moved into our town that has really been need for business activity, and I figured liberals could do the best of it; a social party in our regional level, because our county is poorly appreciated, and since homelesness and poverty is quite rare up here I'd figure it would be best to keep the taxes up and prices down in order to get people to stay here; finally I wanted to vote an enviromental party on a global level because I value our swedish landscape and our future.
Fortunetly I noticed in time it wouldn't work like that, so I voted on some other parties. But if liberals could fix so that it would work like that, i.e. a policy is presented where it is needed, then I would definetly go for it all the way. They are liberals after all.
No they aren't Someone got stuck under a truck on their motorbike the other day. Their arm and head was somehow severed from their body. That was not fun.
@Roseweave: 99.9% of the people here are males. The other 0.1% is you and Phizzy.
I don't like the whole attitude some people have here. Dismissing some topics by saying "Oh, this is a gaming board", this isn't a gaming board, it's a forum for people with a common interest in click - that doesn't mean other things shouldn't be discussed.
" Yeah, politics are so sad. Who the fuck wants to bother discussing the people who make laws and rule over us? It's not as if it affects our every day lives. "
Well you almost have the right idea, but I wonder what discussing does other than piss people off. What is the point? What do we gain from discussing it other than some damn ego inflation and something to do with our lives, then I wonder why there are people walking around wondering why life is so pointless. Now if you are really concerned with something that affects your life, maybe you should be less concerned with an extrapolation of liberalism and catapult your diarrhea at the political parties themselves.
"maybe even try to change the way people think about certain political aspects"
On a national level I can see the point. On a lets discuss some crazy shit about liberals level, I can find it amusing, on an imposing my political views on some guys who's political views I have no idea about, when a lot of the them come from different countries and I do not know much of their political system... pointless.
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
3rd August, 2007 at 13:11:50 -
You're right about that - but the topic strayed off a bit to talking more about politics in general, so I thought I'd just mention that talking about politics is not useless.
Let's all go play some Custer's Revenge, then comment on how it mis-represents the clothing style of that period. Or how about we pick apart Contra, I mean the title in and of itself is completely misrepresentative.
Or how about we STFU about stupid little crap that doesn't matter, and just play some games. I'll call all my next enemies Penis-Men and then not make them look like penii at all; just to piss you trolls off.
"I don't like the whole attitude some people have here. Dismissing some topics by saying "Oh, this is a gaming board", this isn't a gaming board, it's a forum for people with a common interest in click - that doesn't mean other things shouldn't be discussed."
Discussing politics and other real life issues on TDC have always ended in immaturity and silly comments. That is why it seems better to discuss other subjects which don't involve oxygen and liberalism. Yes, it is good to discuss an important topic but you can see the evidence here; motorbike accidents and poems about erections? Hardly a place for political issues methinks.
I refuse to believe that anyone recited the exact same song I did, or even one that's in the same sort of area. At best, they just made the HAYO/DAYO link, at worst, they just made up some song about you, or you made them up in your head.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
There's a huge difference between classic liberals and the New Left. And then there's the Classic Republican/Democrate, and the New Republican Democrate. The newer ones are radical nut-jobs who work for their own betterment rather than the betterment of the country/world/UNIVERZES.
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
The last person who used that song was a fat retard from Atlanta who called himself (cold bowl of) Chili, in real life a fairly uneducated rightwing housefather with a liking for tequila, wrestling and country music. He didn't like it when I said the LIB-CON thing doesn't apply on the whole world. You can prolly find it on google if you don't believe me, it's in some blog discussing Neil Youngs Living with war.
Maybe you are him tho. AND that Claire Flaherty woman. That would be just sweet.
"I'll never get these people who theorise that all the people they ever get into a fight with are somehow the same person."
Maybe you didn't get it, but in this case that theory was based on the fact you're saying exactly the same retarded things, which makes you boring. Apart from that I never had a fight with Claire, nor did I know you are actually trying to fight me, I am still pointing and kind of laughing to be honest.
I am not arguing, sweetheart. I think I said that a few times tho so you could say that's what we are arguing about.
"Your argument is retarded"
Never said that. Unless you want to call your song an argument?
"I'm laughing, really"
Yes, I am laughing. You are UPSET about a name of a character in a freeware game and tell me "not to do it again". How can I not laugh? Entertain me, do it do me
"I am not arguing, sweetheart. I think I said that a few times tho so you could say that's what we are arguing about."
Um, then what have the last several pages been about?
Nothing annoys me more than when in an argument, someone says "I'm not really arguing" and then - Oh Boy! Logic and reason no longer have to apply to that person since they're "not Really arguing". Even though someone is putting forward a motion, and they're attempting to counter it(badly).
This is another classic tactic used by people who can't defend themselves. I might as well make the rest of my posts songs about your name.
"Never said that. Unless you want to call your song an argument?"
No, it was to test your own sense of humour since you're so terribly upset at my upset over your game. And er, you kind of did. Not to mention you started this topic implying I was an "unstable person".
"Yes, I am laughing. You are UPSET about a name of a character in a freeware game and tell me "not to do it again". How can I not laugh? Entertain me, do it do me"
You started off this topic taking the tone of fuckwit, and you continue to be a fuckwit. You laugh because it's something stupid people do when they can't do anything else. Why are you celebrating this fact? What leg up does laughing like an idiot give you, exactly?
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
I started this because we were wasting a fine thread, but mainly to make fun of you as I like being an asshole. As far as people go who are too weak to defend themselves, aren't you the one who went to making fun of my name and telling me I can't argue?
I never said your argument sucks (it does tho, haha), you just are an unstable depressed fucked up little girl and your cunt smells of fish. That's why I called you unstable.
But one last time, don't tell me what to do, ever, you smelly fake account.
"Um, then what have the last several pages been about?" - the spawn of your insecurities? (I don't need to justify that because I am not arguing as is no one else but you.)
"Nothing annoys me more than when in an argument, someone says "I'm not really arguing" " - Nothing annoys me when someone claims they are having an arguement yet they cannot define what the argument is all about. Refering to your question about the last several pages, 'nothing annoys me more' when someone argues against someone's comment about the correct way of arguing, and then bases their whole justification off an implication. Fucking hypocrisy.
"You started off this topic taking the tone of fuckwit, and you continue to be a fuckwit. You laugh because it's something stupid people do when they can't do anything else. Why are you celebrating this fact? What leg up does laughing like an idiot give you, exactly?"
You started off this topic taking the tone of fuckwit, and you continue to be a fuckwit. - Now define fuckwit and give evidence as to why this is the case. Did it just sound insulting? Does it make you feel better?
You laugh because it's something stupid people do when they can't do anything else. - I laugh all the time, and anyone who calls me stupid needs their head examined... oh you mean you used that in some kind of context? Ok explain the context and explain what one should be doing instead.
I hope you don't ignore any of the points I just made, that would be bad 'arguing'.
I've been on Hayo's side the majority of this discussion as the argument itself is rather pathetic. Roseweave seems to just be looking for a fight as the topic doesn't even seem to relate to the initial subject at the moment because now she is just finding ever flaw available to direct at Hayo whether it be liberals or why he isn't taking this seriously.
[quote]
Roseweave, your lack of response concludes you are an asshole without trying. [/quote]
What the hell are you talking about? The fact that I did the mature thing and didn't respond to Hayo's flaming makes me an asshole now? Wow, you really will look for any excuse.
"I've been on Hayo's side the majority of this discussion as the argument itself is rather pathetic. Roseweave seems to just be looking for a fight as the topic doesn't even seem to relate to the initial subject at the moment because now she is just finding ever flaw available to direct at Hayo whether it be liberals or why he isn't taking this seriously."
Uh, you are aware that Hayo was the one that just lashed out at me, not the other way around? I only goaded him personally in any shape or form long after I'd lost patience with him.
I'm not going to bother responding to a biased titwank like this again. If you can't accept that your long standing member is the one fucking up when it's clear as day, then this isn't a very friendly place to new people. It's a merciless clique. I sometimes bring out bad sides of people, but that doesn't mean I'm to blame - it's THEIR bad side, after all, and it's just as well if it's exposed.
You're on Hayo's side as he's an established member and that means he's obviously right. Not to mind that he took a snarky tone the instant I even brought it up "I know what a liberal is, and I know you don't".
And please stop googling my name. I'd like some privacy please, and it has nothing to do with anything here.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
No, the fact you didn't reply to any of MY posts concludes you are an asshole, the picture confirms it.
"And please stop googling my name. I'd like some privacy please, and it has nothing to do with anything here." HAHA the moment you submitted anything to a public network you lost the right to such privacy. And besides, you are here, so it has everything to do with it.
And also this - ""Um, then what have the last several pages been about?" - the spawn of your insecurities? (I don't need to justify that because I am not arguing as is no one else but you.) "
Again, other people are arguing. If you don't even know what an argument is, I'm not going to respond to you. I'm still trying to make out the rest of your barely comprehensible post. Please try to seperate quotes from your replies to them.
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -
Personally I've just been sitting back with some popcorn, but if I don't join in now then I'll regret it.
I'm not going to bother responding to a biased titwank like this again.
Name calling isn't "cool". On either side of the argument.
If you can't accept that your long standing member is the one fucking up when it's clear as day, then this isn't a very friendly place to new people. It's a merciless clique.
Welcome to the Daily Click!
Actually, it's very nice to n00bs and co, if you're not a complete bell-end. Everyone here has loudly spoke their mind at some point and been engrossed in a huge argument. Mention OSX rocks, Lyle sucks, homosexuality, politics and a little war will brew up. There are insecure people here, you also seem to be one of them.
I sometimes bring out bad sides of people, but that doesn't mean I'm to blame - it's THEIR bad side, after all, and it's just as well if it's exposed.
That, madam, was a very retarded statement. If you drove someone to do something then you're to blame too. If I constantly punch my brother or wind him up am I totally blameless if he retaliates?
From an outside view since coming here you've done nothing positive, merely criticise others and their games. Do you expect people to automatically respect you? It's a creative community - you don't just jump in and expect instant verbal pleasing. The click community as a whole is a tough nut to break.
"
"your barely comprehensible post" - yeah if I had googled you earlier I might have realised you are a bit special and used more simplistic language.
"
No, and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm several times more verbose than you.
"I'm not even arguing"
"Yes you are"
"NO I'M NOT!"
lol. Anyway, like James, I've simply been enjoying the show so far, but it has now descended into little more than name-calling. Look, Hayo isn't even contributing anymore. I think it's time to actually stop arguing and direct your creative efforts toward making games again.
Hey Roseweave I made a game called Satan Sam where you play a little devil character. Why don't you cite some references as to where I went historically wrong with it?
Nim made a game where you play as food BUT FOOD ISN'T A VIABLE PROTAGONIST.
Yea, I was talking about the food, too - it's a little bland. Having said that, it's unlikely that Scotland gets the finest quality Middle Eastern foods imported!
"but if you'd said that in real life you'd be in hospital round about now. "
I seriously doubt that if just the people who contributed to this thread were involved. The only guy I see who is strong enough to kick me into a hospital bed actually agrees with me.
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Edited by the Author.
cheeky hair
The whole game, including the boss, is an in-joke with a friend.
I think 
