TDC is not full of indie game developers, it's full of hobbyists. So with regards to TDC, the word indie is a horrible word to describe anything here.
With regard to games like Braid however, once you've designed a full on game, released it, and are at least breaking even with your expenses, I think it's at that point you can consider yourself and the game, an independent project. I know it doesn't make much sense, but with context to how the words are used, this is how I feel it should be.
Heh, I don't mind Indie so much, but I don't like that it's a "new" word (since 2004-ish?) even though amateur game creation had been around for years before.
There are other words/phrases related to independent games that I'm tired of hearing more than "Indie".
Originally Posted by -Adam- I don't mind it on TIGS and other places, but lately it's being used a lot on TDC and it doesn't seem natural for this place.
I agree, but sometimes things have to change if they're to get better. The number of visitors here hasn't exactly been excellent, so we need to look at ways of attracting people from elsewhere. Really what we're trying to do is focus on other game development platforms - rather than just Clickteam products. It's not a shift to "indie" gaming - games made in MMF2 can be considered as indie games.
I don't really see any point in concentrating on one platform, as that just limits the amount of people who'd be interested in coming here. It's a different direction we're taking, and it might not necessarily work - but it's worth a try I think. I still think the majority of things here will be Clickteam related, we're just trying to branch out a little.
I think Rikus used the word indie twice in news posts - and that was because somebody said it didn't make sense referring to a developer who isn't a registered member here
I thought it was a funny word when it first came around and I do love what it is supposed to stand for. Now it just seems douchebaggy, it is just becoming another word to market something. If you ever catch me calling myself an indie gamemaker or indie musician you can kill me.
I don't like it either - far too pretentious.
People always seem to think it makes them sound cool and edgy, whereas it actually makes them sound lame and geeky.
Kind of like a guy I saw today, who was wearing a big toque with earflaps, even though it's sweltering hot outside - it's just trying way too hard, and makes you look a bit of a knob.
Originally Posted by FlavaI don't really see any point in concentrating on one platform, as that just limits the amount of people who'd be interested in coming here. It's a different direction we're taking, and it might not necessarily work - but it's worth a try I think. I still think the majority of things here will be Clickteam related, we're just trying to branch out a little.
I agree - limiting your target audience is usually the worst thing you can do. Just look at how Mean Machines magazine died after they started to concentrate on SEGA consoles only!
Originally Posted by Sketchy I don't like it either - far too pretentious.
People always seem to think it makes them sound cool and edgy, whereas it actually makes them sound lame and geeky.
Kind of like a guy I saw today, who was wearing a big toque with earflaps, even though it's sweltering hot outside - it's just trying way too hard, and makes you look a bit of a knob.
He sounds like a knobber, for sure!
I can see what you all mean about why you dislike "indie" so much now... i'm still not too bothered either way but i get what you mean, and you have a point!
Originally Posted by SiLVERFIRE TDC is not full of indie game developers, it's full of hobbyists. So with regards to TDC, the word indie is a horrible word to describe anything here.
With regard to games like Braid however, once you've designed a full on game, released it, and are at least breaking even with your expenses, I think it's at that point you can consider yourself and the game, an independent project. I know it doesn't make much sense, but with context to how the words are used, this is how I feel it should be.
So if your expenses are $0 and you make $0 then that's cool, right?
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Originally Posted by Assault Andy I don't really like the word. I think it's kind of meaningless. What does an "indie game" actually mean? If you're game isn't "indie" then what is it?
Dependie?
In the loosest possible sense, wouldn't thr word 'Indie' refer to any person/company that doesn't rely on a publisher? So even commercial developers can be indie too? That's how I see it anyway.
Originally Posted by SiLVERFIRE TDC is not full of indie game developers, it's full of hobbyists. So with regards to TDC, the word indie is a horrible word to describe anything here.
With regard to games like Braid however, once you've designed a full on game, released it, and are at least breaking even with your expenses, I think it's at that point you can consider yourself and the game, an independent project. I know it doesn't make much sense, but with context to how the words are used, this is how I feel it should be.
So if your expenses are $0 and you make $0 then that's cool, right?
I guess it has to be acknowledged by main stream audiences to be really deemable as a respectably indie game I suppose?
I don't think you should worry about trying to be cool or 'respectable'. Unless of course, that is your intention with making or releasing a game - to gain respect and make yourself appear cool to other people. I guess some people think the only way to validate their hobby/job of making games is if it's respected among lots of people, or liked by a giant horde of people.
There used to be lots and lots of posts about what being indie is all about in Tigsource and dude, it looks like the word is pretty controversial here too.
Personally, the word "indie" simply means being independent, and isn't limited to game dev. The word "indie" extends to films, bands and even clothes. It is just a word used to represent products created by people that work within a limited budget without support of commercial organisation.
In that sense, hobbyists or not, as long as you create something, you are an indie developer. I dont see why so many klikkers seem to worship or even hate the word "indie". Just because you create games of poor quality or you make games using klik products doesnt make you any less "indie".
I do hate it, however, when indie game developers becomes full of themselves (which seems to be the trend nowadays). Many believes that their games (or art games) are going to be the NEXT BIG THING, and is better than commercial titles.
Speaking of being indie, no offense but i think admins shouldnt overemphasis the word "indie" on their news posts and neither do i like the direction its going. We do not need to be the next clone of TIGsource or Indiegames.com. This site focuses on click products and should always be doing so. While i understand that the poor traffic here is indicative of some major change, but arent there already changes made to promote click game already (ie TEAMS OF AWESOMENESS or something like that)?
"This site focuses on click products and should always be doing so." Right now the site focuses on 98% click and 2% other, we are planning on making that number a bit better on the other %
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Originally Posted by Rikus "This site focuses on click products and should always be doing so." Right now the site focuses on 98% click and 2% other, we are planning on making that number a bit better on the other %
If so, please change the name. At first I thought that this was just an outlet for Klik news. Thought that for a good few months actually, because the name resembles a newspaper name. Sorry, off topic. Change the name to something like the "The weekly Game?"
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Eh, I hate it. Indie -> 200 comments on why games are (not) art.
I play games because games are fun. I don't care what crazy theory you have about it. I don't care about whether the graphics, or the gameplay, or the symbolism behind it. I play them because I want interactive entertainment.
I don't care about why you're making money on your $30 games and how your games are cheaper than t-shirts. I don't care about why piracy is ruining your business. Don't care about how much Dr James is a dishonest swine. I don't care about how you don't spend a cent on marketing, but people still haven't heard of your game. I don't care about how you make a game that's about blasting your emotions at your opponent but nobody loves it because it's not as simple as Doom. Or how stupid people don't understand Dwarf Fortress. Or how you won the IGF but nobody bought the game.
When it comes down to it, it's about fun. If you think your idea can do better than AAA games, then do so. There's just so many bad things associated with "indie" this days. Indie is just doing thing free from the influence of 30 other people trying to make money from it. It's not a brilliant idea, it's not a stupid idea. It's a different way of doing things.
I hate it as much as I hate the word "organic" when used with food. It's not wrong, it's just associated with a style I don't like. Great concept, horrible implementation, horrible people. Sort of like communism.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I only hate it because it's degraded into something to describe someone who feels strongly towards making games. I don't like the people who call them art games, but I also don't like the people who don't like art games.
I'm still on TDC because it maintains a neutral stance on all the ideology going on outside. You don't call TDC games indie, it doesn't feel right. You just call them "games" or "click games" or "freeware games". "Indie" is supposed to mean "independent". Which means your games are independent of external influence. The idea was to get something outside the influence of money, but right now, it's strongly under the influence of being popular with the indie crowd. Or being popular to anti-indie people. TDC has always been good at this - people have such a laid back (but unambitious) attitude that the elitists went off to sites like Total Klik and TIGSource.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Actually I did that last summer, starring me of course!
Isn't the broader discussion that create-games/the-daily-click wants to prepare itself for another audience?
The way I see things is that TDC is a place for click game creators which might have been expanded to a full range of applications created with mmf. I actually believe that the knowledge of click products is the best asset of TDC. So please don't sacrifice it in the process of preparing.
And of course I am helping TDC with preparing by submitting non-click games
Perhaps also a little front-page inflation was going on with all those indie games on there.
I'm not particularly a fan of the word. It has a commercial vibe to it, and it doesn't really seem to define anything concrete in most cases.
As long as something is going to be free, I think "freeware game" does the job.
Though in the end, why not just call everything "games" without any prefixes and leave it at that. The world has been full of games of every imaginable quality for years and years, and calling all of them simply "games" hasn't made them any less or any more playable or important than they have been to this day.
Originally Posted by Hayo Just like when I make a home video I am not gonna call it an independent film.
If you're meaning a home video you're going to share with the world, then I find that quite a fitting comparison.
Back on subject - whatever happened to titles such as freeware, shareware and the like? Takes me back to the mid/late-90's again! I think they're much better names than what indie is and i'm defo gonna start using those names again to describe my games
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