So er... yeah may it be a taboo subject, or maybe his just been forgotten.
I remember ages ago on TDC, when almost every game submitted looked like an 8 year old had just got klik and play and it didnt matter wether the graphics where good, or how good the engine was, it just matterd wether it was actualy possible to get through an entire level without it glitching up somewhere!
Back then PHIZZY roamed the land, and made us all lol alot even if he was an ass sometimes... so... Has he gone? or is he lurking around still with some avatar completly unrelated to phizzy???
Yeah phizzy doesn't want to come back. He doesn't use MMF2 anymore and to be honest I think there are a few people who don't want him back for personal reasons.
Lets face it, TDC just couldn't handle the man and for that reason you're all missing out.
Originally Posted by AndyUK Yeah phizzy doesn't want to come back. He doesn't use MMF2 anymore and to be honest I think there are a few people who don't want him back for personal reasons.
Lets face it, TDC just couldn't handle the man and for that reason you're all missing out.
I say differently. Just a few days ago he e-mailed me asking to come back. I didn't reply but spoke with the other admins. The general consensus was that we're not ready to have him back just yet.
It's amazing how one stereotypical computer geek with crazy attention problems can be so loved, hated and remembered for his uncanny shennanigans(did I actually spell that correct?!) in this bit-byte world of TDC forumage.
Originally Posted by AndyUK Yeah phizzy doesn't want to come back. He doesn't use MMF2 anymore and to be honest I think there are a few people who don't want him back for personal reasons.
Lets face it, TDC just couldn't handle the man and for that reason you're all missing out.
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but if you're implying his ban wasn't justified and that he was banned because the admins didn't like him personally then...wow.
This site has rules and he pretty much broke each and every one of them. Talking of which, someone should add "faking Novasoft's death" to the rules list.
Not that I didn't like the guy, he was funny in his own way, but he was a bit of a troll sometimes.
I think he means that some admins don't want him back because they don't like him (ie, I think he's implicating myself in that statement). I, and the other admins, don't hold petty personal vendettas against TDC members. If that was the case then our positions as impartial admins would have to be questioned.
The reason Phizzy got banned was because he misbehaved consistently and pretty much broke every rule there was to break. Regardless of the fact that some found his antics amusing, or that he helped some members out, it doesn't grant him immunity. His actions often weren't appropriate, and Phizzy did receive many, many warnings, of which he chose to ignore.
Phizzy sent me an email asking to come back. I broke the question out in the admin forums and every single one thought he should stay banned. We can't all be wrong on this. Maybe in time this will change, but for now, judgement has been cast!
As admins we sometimes have to make choices that TDC members don't like. Clearly this is one of them. Feel free to discuss our choice amongst yourselves but ultimately we have the final say on the matter.
Originally Posted by Circy Claus I think he means that some admins don't want him back because they don't like him (ie, I think he's implicating myself in that statement). I, and the other admins, don't hold petty personal vendettas against TDC members. If that was the case then our positions as impartial admins would have to be questioned.
The reason Phizzy got banned was because he misbehaved consistently and pretty much broke every rule there was to break. Regardless of the fact that some found his antics amusing, or that he helped some members out, it doesn't grant him immunity. His actions often weren't appropriate, and Phizzy did receive many, many warnings, of which he chose to ignore.
Phizzy sent me an email asking to come back. I broke the question out in the admin forums and every single one thought he should stay banned. We can't all be wrong on this. Maybe in time this will change, but for now, judgement has been cast!
As admins we sometimes have to make choices that TDC members don't like. Clearly this is one of them. Feel free to discuss our choice amongst yourselves but ultimately we have the final say on the matter.
You will have to trust me on this one. He doesn't want to come back.
Originally Posted by Circy Claus I think he means that some admins don't want him back because they don't like him (ie, I think he's implicating myself in that statement). I, and the other admins, don't hold petty personal vendettas against TDC members. If that was the case then our positions as impartial admins would have to be questioned.
The reason Phizzy got banned was because he misbehaved consistently and pretty much broke every rule there was to break. Regardless of the fact that some found his antics amusing, or that he helped some members out, it doesn't grant him immunity. His actions often weren't appropriate, and Phizzy did receive many, many warnings, of which he chose to ignore.
Phizzy sent me an email asking to come back. I broke the question out in the admin forums and every single one thought he should stay banned. We can't all be wrong on this. Maybe in time this will change, but for now, judgement has been cast!
As admins we sometimes have to make choices that TDC members don't like. Clearly this is one of them. Feel free to discuss our choice amongst yourselves but ultimately we have the final say on the matter.
You will have to trust me on this one. He doesn't want to come back.
Phizzy was amusing, and useful, but he just goes around ignoring the rules. He's been unbanned way too many times, and has shown that he doesn't care much staying good. He gets randomly assaulted by other members when he comes back anyway.
He probably has a fake account here. It could be any one of us.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Originally Posted by Circy Claus I think he means that some admins don't want him back because they don't like him (ie, I think he's implicating myself in that statement). I, and the other admins, don't hold petty personal vendettas against TDC members. If that was the case then our positions as impartial admins would have to be questioned.
The reason Phizzy got banned was because he misbehaved consistently and pretty much broke every rule there was to break. Regardless of the fact that some found his antics amusing, or that he helped some members out, it doesn't grant him immunity. His actions often weren't appropriate, and Phizzy did receive many, many warnings, of which he chose to ignore.
Phizzy sent me an email asking to come back. I broke the question out in the admin forums and every single one thought he should stay banned. We can't all be wrong on this. Maybe in time this will change, but for now, judgement has been cast!
As admins we sometimes have to make choices that TDC members don't like. Clearly this is one of them. Feel free to discuss our choice amongst yourselves but ultimately we have the final say on the matter.
You will have to trust me on this one. He doesn't want to come back.
Can't blame him LOL
You still here? Even though you clearly loath the place? I still don't get that.
Originally Posted by Muz He gets randomly assaulted by other members when he comes back anyway.
Yeah, problem is people consider him fair game just because he's been bad in the past.
I feel sorry for the admins for having to deal with people, half who are very vocal about wanting him back, and the other half who are just as vocal about wanting him gone.
Edited by Phredreeke
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
Originally Posted by Circy Claus I think he means that some admins don't want him back because they don't like him (ie, I think he's implicating myself in that statement). I, and the other admins, don't hold petty personal vendettas against TDC members. If that was the case then our positions as impartial admins would have to be questioned.
The reason Phizzy got banned was because he misbehaved consistently and pretty much broke every rule there was to break. Regardless of the fact that some found his antics amusing, or that he helped some members out, it doesn't grant him immunity. His actions often weren't appropriate, and Phizzy did receive many, many warnings, of which he chose to ignore.
Phizzy sent me an email asking to come back. I broke the question out in the admin forums and every single one thought he should stay banned. We can't all be wrong on this. Maybe in time this will change, but for now, judgement has been cast!
As admins we sometimes have to make choices that TDC members don't like. Clearly this is one of them. Feel free to discuss our choice amongst yourselves but ultimately we have the final say on the matter.
You will have to trust me on this one. He doesn't want to come back.
Can't blame him LOL
...yet you are here posting.
If you don't like the community you're more than welcome to leave. If you want me to be entirely honest with you, you're not really the kind of member this community is going to miss.
Originally Posted by AndyUK Yeah phizzy doesn't want to come back. He doesn't use MMF2 anymore and to be honest I think there are a few people who don't want him back for personal reasons.
Lets face it, TDC just couldn't handle the man and for that reason you're all missing out.
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but if you're implying his ban wasn't justified and that he was banned because the admins didn't like him personally then...wow.
This site has rules and he pretty much broke each and every one of them. Talking of which, someone should add "faking Novasoft's death" to the rules list.
Not that I didn't like the guy, he was funny in his own way, but he was a bit of a troll sometimes.
I wasn't talking about being banned I was talking about being allowed to return.
I have no opinion on the original ban because I have no idea what the specific reasons were. Due to the delete happy adminship I doubt there is much evidence left at all and i'm not searching TDC to find any.
Oh and about annoucing Ryan's death, I think that was an attempt at a joke that just got way out of hand. The internet makes people desensitised to things like death. Infact the only taboo left on the internet is causing harm to cats apparently.
I remember being pretty pissed off at Phizzy for that. I think it went beyond internet japery. I'd been speaking to Nova for a while on MSN and he seemed pretty depressed, then he disappeared, and then Phizzy come on announcing he'd committed suicide. That's not a joke you can really be "in" on. Jokes should always be see-through.
I wouldn't have a problem with him being back though. Not that I have a say in it. I miss pictures of Phizzy's penis.
I registered here close to 10 years ago on my first account. I have a rather unfortunate habit of visiting I guess? TDC has competitions every year as well so I like to know when they are going on in case I decide to enter. Other than that, clueless.
I enjoy helping people from time to time . . . when I can, which is rare - also unfortunate.
The klik "scene" in general is pretty crappy IMO so I can't really see regularing a different website being any better.
I'm wondering why "the Klik "scene" in general is pretty crappy" in your opinion. From what i see, TDC is more than enough to keep a Kliker like me happy, else i'd spend more time talking about Kliking than actually Kliking, IMO.
Originally Posted by Marko I'm wondering why "the Klik "scene" in general is pretty crappy" in your opinion.
Not that it matters, but if you really want to know :
The overall quality of click games is atrocious. Even the best coders here make the worst games I have ever seen.
Weird/incorrect sentence incoming -> Nobody/few here tries to improve themselves past a certain point.
Any game that gets submitted here that has sub-par gameplay and even half decent graphics is an instant hit. A trailer with great graphics that shows no gameplay gets way more attention than games that have decent gameplay, but bad/below average graphics - ones that you can actually play.
Show me a click game without bugs (joke of the freaking millenia.) Most of you guys ignore bugs because you don't think you can fix them or something . . . hell I don't know. When I work on anything I fix any and every bug that I can possibly find. If I keep digging a bigger hole I remake the game from the ground up.
A lot of people seem to think that 2 weeks is a good timeframe for making a game and rush everything out. I'm all for being quick, but at least do it right. Every game released within 2 weeks will almost inevetably suck and be ridden with bugs, which really aren't that hard to phase out if you try. Even you guys that use PMO manage to make games full of bugs - something that blows my mind.
I'm sure I could come up with a thousand more reasons, but I'm tired of typing.
Admittedly I do think TDC has kinda become boring in the past couple of years. Everything is too sugary, nice and bum lickerish and it's starting to feel unproductive around here.
Originally Posted by AndyUK Yeah phizzy doesn't want to come back. He doesn't use MMF2 anymore and to be honest I think there are a few people who don't want him back for personal reasons.
Lets face it, TDC just couldn't handle the man and for that reason you're all missing out.
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but if you're implying his ban wasn't justified and that he was banned because the admins didn't like him personally then...wow.
This site has rules and he pretty much broke each and every one of them. Talking of which, someone should add "faking Novasoft's death" to the rules list.
Not that I didn't like the guy, he was funny in his own way, but he was a bit of a troll sometimes.
I wasn't talking about being banned I was talking about being allowed to return.
I have no opinion on the original ban because I have no idea what the specific reasons were. Due to the delete happy adminship I doubt there is much evidence left at all and i'm not searching TDC to find any.
Oh and about annoucing Ryan's death, I think that was an attempt at a joke that just got way out of hand. The internet makes people desensitised to things like death. Infact the only taboo left on the internet is causing harm to cats apparently.
On that one I wouldn't put all the blame on Phizzy, I still think it was mostly Novasoft's idea.
I'm guessing he was curious to know how people would react to his supposed death, probably inspired by all the grief and shock the community felt when Darran Baker passed away not long before.
I highly doubt it was meant to be a joke because a lot of people took it seriously and phizzy still kept the lie going for quite some time. Not to mention that I can't possibly see how this all situation could be remotely fun to anyone.
And people try not to reply to GamesterXIII, he's obviously looking for a reaction. i.e trolling
I think gamester has some valid points, i mean games at tdc are not great, rarely are, but if they were, they wouldn't be here, the user would probably sell the game if he makes something good*. I see this site as an excellent starting point for everyone who wants to make games, and for hobbyist that enjoys making them. And now with flash ex. even a bit more. But clearly people at this site are a bit frustrated, both new and older clickers. I think this community really needs to accept new members and not live in the past, grieving over some banned trolls and whos nots. Cause new members are ussually considered outsiders, and some members who dissaperead 200 years ago are like some kind of gods or what not.
*It is quite obvius that this community can offer a lot of information, help and usefullness to someone unexperienced and experienced. But it's obvius that it has very little to offer to people who are publishing their games. My honest opinion it should, because it's a good community with a lot of people. And i think it should definitly try to motivate and keep people which are not just learning or hobbying, but actually want to earn money from games.
And i think gamester opinion was valid, telling him he is a troll, or to leave the site. I consider that to be rude. I don't see any reason not to acknowledge his opinion just because he is not an admin or within some olden tdc clicker secret circle of bananas or something. That is a joke by the way. I can clearly see why a lot of people would want to leave this site, but instead of giving them incentive to leave it would be more wise to give a reason to stay. Otherwise the click community as stated a lot of times as dying, will remain in that state. It will just always be dying. I noticed most users leave after their learning period of time, and then they just pop in and out occasinally. Do not get me wrong i think this site is great. But all in all it could and should be improved. Esspecially when it comes to hearing opinions even when they are not true or valid or if you don't like them.
I tend to speak the truth, or what i consider to be the truth when someone asks me for an opionion, a lot of people considers that unpolite, and it is. But i don't care, if you don't want to hear the truth and just want people to say how cool your game is, you will have a hard time becoming better. Even most high budget games get a ton more negative input than any of the click games. And if you can't learn to handle negative comments it would be hard for you to make any type of games.
Well, that's it. All hail the click! and sorry for such a long post.
^ I don't think its so much that people here don't know how to handle negative input - for the most part - aside from not really acting upon it. A lot of it is the fact that people outright refuse to even give negative input about other click/klik games. Its like some unwritten rule around here that you can't tell a member that his below mediocre game is, in fact, below mediocre.
A good example would be uh . . . . Lost Valley. I actually loved Lost Valley despite its trillion flaws, the fact that it is extremely broken, and the fact that I really don't care for most games here. IMO the creator's other games are horrible. He doesn't optimize them at all (, they are riddled with bugs, they aren't well-balanced, and he doesn't really seem to care about any of this. He just makes the game, releases it, and thats it. . . I know he probably hasn't been around for a while, but I'm just using him as an example.
Another good example would be Nastyman's Wendy on the front page (lack of front-page content?). The game has a bunch of major flaws (in my eyes its near unplayable,) and IMO Nastyman has been around long enough to at least not use the default platform movement with crazy slippery settings. Out of 5 of the ratings (excluding mine, obviously) four of them are 3 stars and one is 2 stars. The game looks like something I would have made within a few days - a week of starting TGF. . . close to 10 years ago. Sorry, Nastyman, but I really don't think you try to push yourself to make better games, and everyone else, including myself, didn't bother pointing out what was wrong with the game aside from "the controls are slippery, but otherwise its good," which is a severe overstatent. If anyone does critique your game you should pay attention and at least give a shot at what they say. If you don't like the end result then to each his own, but at least you tried.
The only time I see negative input is towards new users.
Don Luciano, did you at least check his other posts before saying I was being rude ?
He first stirred up some people with the "Can't blame him LOL" comment and then went on to say that the games here are "atrocious" and that "even the best coders here make the worst games he ever saw", among other things.
That's not an opinion, that's provocation.
If I said you were ugly and smelled bad, would you take that as an opinion or a provocation ?
I've used many other game developing tools and engines and been active in their respective communities, and I can tell you right away that generally the games here are a lot less buggy than in the other communities I've been, probably because mmf2 is very easy to use and handles most tasks for you.
Actually I'm surprised you even took him seriously, my best bet is that you never really tried any other software/engine and checked out what their community is doing.
No no, I just meant every thread you post in turns into a "gamester sucks" thread. You post a bunch of opinions (how the community is terrible and the such) and then lash out to people who don't like your overly negative attitude.
We know you aren't nice, we know you hate this community, its members and its games. You made your point and most of us don't care about it. You are wasting your energy and our hobby.
What happened to the dramatic IM LEAVING GUYS, IM NOT BEING AN ADMIN ANYMORE. Now here you are being a little control freak again. Go work on Mr Stumps, who knows... you might get it released by 2015, with ugly Acoders logos splattered all over it.
Originally Posted by -Adam- What happened to the dramatic IM LEAVING GUYS, IM NOT BEING AN ADMIN ANYMORE. Now here you are being a little control freak again. Go work on Mr Stumps, who knows... you might get it released by 2015, with ugly Acoders logos splattered all over it.
1. I did leave for a year but Rikus asked me to come back at the end of 2009. After some thought, I decided to give it another go. You must have noticed me around for the last year, don't pretend that you didn't.
2. I'm doing my job as an admin and keeping an eye on things. Starting personal attacks on myself for doing that job is pretty childish, don't you think? Grow up. You're not a child anymore.
Originally Posted by Johnny Look Don Luciano, did you at least check his other posts before saying I was being rude ?
He first stirred up some people with the "Can't blame him LOL" comment and then went on to say that the games here are "atrocious" and that "even the best coders here make the worst games he ever saw", among other things.
That's not an opinion, that's provocation.
If I said you were ugly and smelled bad, would you take that as an opinion or a provocation ?
I've used many other game developing tools and engines and been active in their respective communities, and I can tell you right away that generally the games here are a lot less buggy than in the other communities I've been, probably because mmf2 is very easy to use and handles most tasks for you.
Actually I'm surprised you even took him seriously, my best bet is that you never really tried any other software/engine and checked out what their community is doing.
No i haven't checked any of his other posts actually. I do apologize for calling you rude.
And i have tried some other softwares, not much, and actually i did noticed that this is one of better commmunites, although i havent really been active in other communities.
And most of my post was not so much related to gamester which i used for example, and i certainly dissaprove of his rating and commenting criteria.
Difference is, whatever I talk about on Facebook has nothing at all to do with TDC. What YOU are doing is needlessly insulting other people, including myself.
I think I'm going to remove that privilege from you for a while. SILENCED.
You can still view the site, but can't post in the forums.
Originally Posted by -Adam- What happened to the dramatic IM LEAVING GUYS, IM NOT BEING AN ADMIN ANYMORE. Now here you are being a little control freak again. Go work on Mr Stumps, who knows... you might get it released by 2015, with ugly Acoders logos splattered all over it.
As much as you hate him you do sound a lot like Phizzy, except not funny.
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
Circy your response to Adam is childish in itself and bordering on abuse of your admin powers. Just be a man, have a chat with Adam on PM's and lighten up.
On topic I do love making things (be it games, machinery, electronics of whatever) but although people still visit this site I cannot help feel that something is lacking or missing.
Actually . . . You said it yourself. A lot of it is actually true, unfortunately. Really though, Show me what isn't an opinion, besides me poking fun at Johnny .
n/a
-Dark Martin- The dark is most certainly not your friend
Registered 05/06/2008
Points 21
16th November, 2010 at 20:15:46 -
I should really get back into the community... although i think i'll sit up here and avoid the throwing of things.
Originally Posted by ..::hagar::.. Circy your response to Adam is childish in itself and bordering on abuse of your admin powers. Just be a man, have a chat with Adam on PM's and lighten up.
I disagree, what Adam said was uncalled for. You could argue whether he should have silenced Adam or just given him a warning, but since Adam showed no sign of stopping his actions made sense.
Edit: Slow reply FTW. Maybe I shouldn't be writing replies at the same times as I play video games
Edited by Phredreeke
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
Originally Posted by Johnny Look Don Luciano, did you at least check his other posts before saying I was being rude ?
He first stirred up some people with the "Can't blame him LOL" comment and then went on to say that the games here are "atrocious" and that "even the best coders here make the worst games he ever saw", among other things.
That's not an opinion, that's provocation.
If I said you were ugly and smelled bad, would you take that as an opinion or a provocation ?
I've used many other game developing tools and engines and been active in their respective communities, and I can tell you right away that generally the games here are a lot less buggy than in the other communities I've been, probably because mmf2 is very easy to use and handles most tasks for you.
Actually I'm surprised you even took him seriously, my best bet is that you never really tried any other software/engine and checked out what their community is doing.
No i haven't checked any of his other posts actually. I do apologize for calling you rude.
And i have tried some other softwares, not much, and actually i did noticed that this is one of better commmunites, although i havent really been active in other communities.
And most of my post was not so much related to gamester which i used for example, and i certainly dissaprove of his rating and commenting criteria.
Apologies accepted.
Originally Posted by ..::hagar::.. Circy your response to Adam is childish in itself and bordering on abuse of your admin powers. Just be a man, have a chat with Adam on PM's and lighten up.
On topic I do love making things (be it games, machinery, electronics of whatever) but although people still visit this site I cannot help feel that something is lacking or missing.
I second Matt too, bring Ashman back.
I think what the thing this community is lacking the most is more active members. About 4 or 5 years ago there were new games and new members popping up every day, now the community feels a lot closer so to say. I think this isn't tdc fault, clickteam's userbase has been declining very quickly for the last 2 years or so and tdc is still very much centered around klik products.
On the brighter side, I feel the community matured quite a bit. While back then bad games would be bashed and the creator mocked, now there's much more constructive criticism and encouragement.
Circy you have openly admitted using off site interactions and personal arguments to help make and or support your decision (chats in gwerdy) which in my mind is morally iffy. Secondly if I have an argument with someone or if someone upsets me, I speak to them - I do not get some "heavies" to hold them down and duck tape their mouth shut. Your response in my opinion is not only way over the top but on somewhat iffy ground too.
I'm not so good at quoting parts of text on TDC so I'll just use quotation marks.
"I feel the community matured quite a bit. While back then bad games would be bashed and the creator mocked, now there's much more constructive criticism and encouragement."
I really don't feel this way. I don't see people getting bashed and mocked constantly, but I do see a lot of comments like "oh well x wasn't so great in game Y, but the game is good," when it really isn't necessary or the game is highly deserving of some C&C. I think I see plenty of encouragement, but the constructive criticism is pretty much non existant here.
I wish people would be more critical of themselves for starters. I also wish the community would be more critical of others, at least to those that want to improve, more often.
1. I silenced Adam. My decision had been made. It's not a permanent silence, and set for a couple of weeks.
2. I then made a roughly monthly trip to Gwerdy. Coincidently Adam happened to be there and started to moan to everyone who would listen about how I followed him there. Personal attacks followed. I was willing to try and talk to him prior to this.
3. Adam has received warnings from other admins in the past, and no action has ever been taken as far as I know. We operate a "3-strikes-and-you're-banned" rule. Adam knows right from wrong. I took it upon myself to silence him. Note that this is NOT a ban, although I was considering a temporary ban. He can still visit the site, and I think he can comment on news posts and downloads, not totally sure on that.
At the end of the day, I'm an admin. Some admins in years gone by have felt uncomfortable with wanting to get involved in banning or silencing users, due to the backlash that follows. You may or may not like it but I honestly feel I have made the right decision.
We should be more critical of others.
I think we should stop encouraging people, put a gun toward this light hearted attitude that we go going here on TDC and focus more on the nitty-gritty raw power of "survival of the fittest".
Because really, when a new user pops up and shares his/her attempts at a game, we really should remark only on everything we find bad, sucky or even horrible about it.
No sugar coating.
"I didn't like your game, the overall impression sucks, horrible graphics and reeeaally bad ai programming."
The n00b will probably leave after recieving 20 variants of the above.
But that's a good thing!
We won't have to wade through piles of junk games anymore!
Eventually, only us REAL, AWESOME game makers will be left, and TDC will be the elite forum it set out to be, with it's 4-5 users DAWG enough to be here.
(Though we bad dawgz don't need anything to back up our awesomeness, like say ACTUALLY MAKING SOMETHING TO BACK UP OUR OVER-INFLATED EGOS THAT MAKES US BEHAVE LIKE RUDE IDIOTS WHO HAVEN'T HEARD OF BEING POLITE)
^ This post can't be serious. . . Good job misinterpreting things, LOL
Seriously - Allow me to elaborate. Theres a difference between giving constructive criticism (something we need/lack around here) vs. just telling someone their game sucks. I have never seen constructive criticism addressed here (I don't even know if I've seen it more than once!)
The ones that would leave because of criticism are the same ones that would never get anywhere in the first place, and probably shouldn't participate in any community due to their inability to process the difference between a helpful comment and outright bashing.
Hey guys, i didnt realise my thread had got so long.. i read it from the beginning to the end. It started of as a nice conversation between everyone about the actual thread topic, and now it seems to be a bit more personal.
Im not an admin or anything, but can't we just all be a bit more positive cause thats what most of us want really
Originally Posted by GamesterXIII I have never seen constructive criticism addressed here (I don't even know if I've seen it more than once!)
Really? You say you've been here for 10 years, and haven't seen CC here more than once? Well, problem solved! You just need to point that frog at the comments section of downloads and voilá! CC!!!
I guess you never thought of actually looking huh?
The ones that would leave because of criticism are the same ones that would never get anywhere in the first place, and probably shouldn't participate in any community due to their inability to process the difference between a helpful comment and outright bashing.
That's just so horrible to read. You know that? Sucks to be you.
1. I silenced Adam. My decision had been made. It's not a permanent silence, and set for a couple of weeks.
2. I then made a roughly monthly trip to Gwerdy. Coincidently Adam happened to be there and started to moan to everyone who would listen about how I followed him there. Personal attacks followed. I was willing to try and talk to him prior to this.
3. Adam has received warnings from other admins in the past, and no action has ever been taken as far as I know. We operate a "3-strikes-and-you're-banned" rule. Adam knows right from wrong. I took it upon myself to silence him. Note that this is NOT a ban, although I was considering a temporary ban. He can still visit the site, and I think he can comment on news posts and downloads, not totally sure on that.
At the end of the day, I'm an admin. Some admins in years gone by have felt uncomfortable with wanting to get involved in banning or silencing users, due to the backlash that follows. You may or may not like it but I honestly feel I have made the right decision.
Circy you have completely missed my point of you reaffirming your decision using your experiences based on off site interactions. As far as I am concerned this is a bit morally iffy. Yes I can figure out that it is not a ban but it is still way OTT in my opinion.
I also remember your trigger happy deletion (and subtraction of points) of an article I writ many many years ago, so forgive me for assuming that this is of an similar ilk.
Originally Posted by Hayo I remember the time BEFORE there was Phizzy.
I remember the time before Hayo.
Anybody who is part of this community since 2001 rise their hand now.
Seriously Phizzy is a loly guy and not as much of a troll like other people who use every single post and thread to attack the poster who created the threat. He would also help people.
I don't really remember any of his games but that's because the only game of his I had ever played was "Midget got shrinked" and I still laugh my ass off about such an absurd title.
Originally Posted by Zephni Hey guys, i didnt realise my thread had got so long.. i read it from the beginning to the end. It started of as a nice conversation between everyone about the actual thread topic, and now it seems to be a bit more personal.
Im not an admin or anything, but can't we just all be a bit more positive cause thats what most of us want really
YOU ALL LOVE EACH OTHER REALLY !
I agree, it all was going good until the "this community sucks, the games here have bugs" post. I was kind of predicting this would be ending this way, at least I can say I warned.
What Adam did here at TDC was the cause of the silence. It was justifiable in itself. The off-site interactions at Gwerdy have nothing to do with TDC, yes and his outside behaviour had nothing to do with my actions. Actions and feelings are different. The comments at Gwerdy made me feel my choice was correct but it did not influence the choice.
I don't remember the article that I deleted, what was it about? And as it was years and years ago, shouldn't you let it drop by now?
I was merely recounting an over the top reaction made by you and experienced by myself, even if it is digging up the past. To be honest clicking is back as a hobby I enjoy and show to friends, family and colleagues only again.
Anyway I still think that this is somewhat over the top and you shall not change my mind . You silenced someone for having a little poke at you and making references to your facebook status.
Surely a more grown up thing would be just to ignore such personal slights...
Originally Posted by GamesterXIII I have never seen constructive criticism addressed here (I don't even know if I've seen it more than once!)
Really? You say you've been here for 10 years, and haven't seen CC here more than once? Well, problem solved! You just need to point that frog at the comments section of downloads and voilá! CC!!!
I guess you never thought of actually looking huh?
The ones that would leave because of criticism are the same ones that would never get anywhere in the first place, and probably shouldn't participate in any community due to their inability to process the difference between a helpful comment and outright bashing.
That's just so horrible to read. You know that? Sucks to be you.
I have and all I see are people praising bad games and not pointing out what the creator can do to help improve them.
PS: You hardly make any sense.
Originally Posted by MasterM
Originally Posted by Hayo I remember the time BEFORE there was Phizzy.
I remember the time before Hayo.
Anybody who is part of this community since 2001 rise their hand now.
Pretty sure I was around at this time, but I was kind of in the background. I submitted a few things that probably got buried.
Originally Posted by ..::hagar::.. I was merely recounting an over the top reaction made by you and experienced by myself, even if it is digging up the past. To be honest clicking is back as a hobby I enjoy and show to friends, family and colleagues only again.
Anyway I still think that this is somewhat over the top and you shall not change my mind . You silenced someone for having a little poke at you and making references to your facebook status.
Surely a more grown up thing would be just to ignore such personal slights...
I must agree, it looked rather personal. Maybe we should start a new forum post to unsilence adam.
Originally Posted by ..::hagar::.. I was merely recounting an over the top reaction made by you and experienced by myself, even if it is digging up the past. To be honest clicking is back as a hobby I enjoy and show to friends, family and colleagues only again.
Anyway I still think that this is somewhat over the top and you shall not change my mind . You silenced someone for having a little poke at you and making references to your facebook status.
Surely a more grown up thing would be just to ignore such personal slights...
I must agree, it looked rather personal. Maybe we should start a new forum post to unsilence adam.
I concur. Let's not keep derailing this thread and run the risk of being told off. I shall create a thread in a few minutes.
I think he enjoyed himself here.. Even though he had little to no respect i think he still enjoyed it! Maybe its a slight matter of pride that he said he didn't want to come back to Andy UK... But until its noticed that he has changed maybe he should be left off the site for a while. One day the admin folk may change their minds, but im pretty sure if he started to play up again he would be banned for eternity.
Yeah sometimes his humour was hard to follow... it was always a kind of dirty, or childish kinda funny. But i think i enjoyed his downloads and looking at his posts and things because he was so simple and would submit the most strange games or tutorials. And after i looked at them i would always be laughing weather it was at him or with him i don't know lol.
This thread is fantastic. I'm sad that all the personal attacks ended, I'd started enjoying that reading through it.
Let's start again: Hagar, you're a fat gaylord; Circy, you lick toilet bowls and GamesterXIII, you have an IQ lower than your age. And I'm guessing you're 12. LET'S GET RRREADY TO RRRUUUUUMMMBBLLEEEEE.....
Originally Posted by Matt Boothman This thread is fantastic. I'm sad that all the personal attacks ended, I'd started enjoying that reading through it.
Let's start again: Hagar, you're a fat gaylord; Circy, you lick toilet bowls and GamesterXIII, you have an IQ lower than your age. And I'm guessing you're 12. LET'S GET RRREADY TO RRRUUUUUMMMBBLLEEEEE.....
Originally Posted by Matt Boothman This thread is fantastic. I'm sad that all the personal attacks ended, I'd started enjoying that reading through it.
Let's start again: Hagar, you're a fat gaylord; Circy, you lick toilet bowls and GamesterXIII, you have an IQ lower than your age. And I'm guessing you're 12. LET'S GET RRREADY TO RRRUUUUUMMMBBLLEEEEE.....
Yes having an opinion that strays from the norm around here and pushing people to try harder, make better games, and be humbly more critical of others means that my age, and apparently IQ are equivalent to or lower than that of a 12 year old.
Originally Posted by Matt Boothman This thread is fantastic. I'm sad that all the personal attacks ended, I'd started enjoying that reading through it.
Let's start again: Hagar, you're a fat gaylord; Circy, you lick toilet bowls and GamesterXIII, you have an IQ lower than your age. And I'm guessing you're 12. LET'S GET RRREADY TO RRRUUUUUMMMBBLLEEEEE.....
Originally Posted by Matt Boothman This thread is fantastic. I'm sad that all the personal attacks ended, I'd started enjoying that reading through it.
Let's start again: Hagar, you're a fat gaylord; Circy, you lick toilet bowls and GamesterXIII, you have an IQ lower than your age. And I'm guessing you're 12. LET'S GET RRREADY TO RRRUUUUUMMMBBLLEEEEE.....
Yes having an opinion that strays from the norm around here and pushing people to try harder, make better games, and be humbly more critical of others, means that my age, and apparently IQ are equivalent to or lower than that of a 12 year old.
Originally Posted by Matt Boothman This thread is fantastic. I'm sad that all the personal attacks ended, I'd started enjoying that reading through it.
Let's start again: Hagar, you're a fat gaylord; Circy, you lick toilet bowls and GamesterXIII, you have an IQ lower than your age. And I'm guessing you're 12. LET'S GET RRREADY TO RRRUUUUUMMMBBLLEEEEE.....
Yes having an opinion that strays from the norm around here and pushing people to try harder, make better games, and be humbly more critical of others means that my age, and apparently IQ are equivalent to or lower than that of a 12 year old.
Yes, saying this community "kinda sucks",that the games here are "atrocious" and that "even the best coders here make the worst games you ever saw"is the best way to help.
edit: Oh and specially when you justify your "opinion" by stating games here are buggy. Priceless
Originally Posted by Matt Boothman This thread is fantastic. I'm sad that all the personal attacks ended, I'd started enjoying that reading through it.
Let's start again: Hagar, you're a fat gaylord; Circy, you lick toilet bowls and GamesterXIII, you have an IQ lower than your age. And I'm guessing you're 12. LET'S GET RRREADY TO RRRUUUUUMMMBBLLEEEEE.....
Yes having an opinion that strays from the norm around here and pushing people to try harder, make better games, and be humbly more critical of others means that my age, and apparently IQ are equivalent to or lower than that of a 12 year old.
Having an opinion is alright, but outright insulting people doesn't really help push anyone in a direction other than being pissed at you. It's great that you think people seem to flock around games that you don't happen to like (by the way, games are more than their programming and graphics, and most of the games I've played on here have not been buggy, and the ones that are have been developed by new comers), but ironically I wouldn't consider 90% of the games on here to be even remotely popular.
Great, the community sucks, they make garbage games, you've been here for a decade, what have you done? How is your opinion going to be credible when you've nothing to back it up with? I don't mind people giving harsh opinions on things, but you've got to have a leg to stand on, otherwise you just look like some dumb kid that no one loves or will take seriously.
Finish a game that looks great, has zero bugs and have everyone ignore you, then you can start spewing your opinions all over the place. I tried it and I looked like a moron, only I was new here, what's your excuse?
And generalizing things by saying stuff like "all games here are terrible" is bogus. I doubt you've played every single game that has been released here, so how are you super qualified to judge something that you've never experienced? I have one of my games on here, I suppose it sucks, too?
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That Really Hot Chick
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Originally Posted by Matt Boothman This thread is fantastic. I'm sad that all the personal attacks ended, I'd started enjoying that reading through it.
Let's start again: Hagar, you're a fat gaylord; Circy, you lick toilet bowls and GamesterXIII, you have an IQ lower than your age. And I'm guessing you're 12. LET'S GET RRREADY TO RRRUUUUUMMMBBLLEEEEE.....
Yes having an opinion that strays from the norm around here and pushing people to try harder, make better games, and be humbly more critical of others means that my age, and apparently IQ are equivalent to or lower than that of a 12 year old.
Finish a game that looks great, has zero bugs and have everyone ignore you, then you can start spewing your opinions all over the place. I tried it and I looked like a moron, only I was new here, what's your excuse?
Gimme about 4 weeks.
By the way, I'm not trying to judge you personally, but I can almost 100% guarantee you that I won't like Halloween candy, and I don't have a place to play it at the moment (no computer setup at home for the moment.)
As for your other game (intense) that is in progress, it isn't the type of game that I particularly like so my opinion towards it is going to have a negative vibe regardless.
The thing is though, "I don't like your game" and "the game you made is not my thing" is not something you want to be saying. Nobody gives a shit about that. What is the author going to do with such information? The only thing it's likely to do is hurt feelings a little, which is counterproductive.
I don't get it. I would have already downloaded the game and tried it if I had a decent computer setup at home. All I have is a crappy 1.3ghz celeron laptop with 256 ram, and I am not about to attempt to play a game on that.
I think Hayo just said the most sane thing anyone has in ages!
LOOK AT WHAT HE SAID! IT MAKES SENCE! I wish everyones attitude was like that.
if there is ever a game that i think sucks, or if its not "my kind of game" i just see what i can learn from it, or ignore it. But still give encouraging words where possible to help out the guy who spent hours/weeks/months making it! Please just appreciate the good in what people say/do/make!
All I am saying is, either say something positive (makes the author feel good about his hobby) or constructive (makes the author better at stuff) or shut the hell up.
I agree with Hayo too. Making games on your own is a huge commitment in time and effort. To be told by a player/reviewer that "its not their vibe" (or whatever the useless comment happens to be) is hardly going to do anything to help them or inspire them.
Unfortunately, on my part, no. I finished a christmas game back in 02 with a friend of mine that had a fully custom engine platform, which was rare for that time era, and zero bugs (I know I know) which was even more rare. I was really proud of it. My friend disappeared about 80% of the way through the development process and I was forced to finish it myself. The OS (windows ME) messed up and I didn't have another computer to slave the HD to and recover the game. This was the same year that maniac elf game won that was so buggy you couldn't even play it . Ever since this we have started countless games that would see anywhere from 1 week to 3 months of light. /sob story
Fortunately we are finally completely re-designing the game for this years competition and it is making great progress graphically and engine-wise. It isn't even remotely as organized as I would like for it to be code-wise due to time constraints, the drive to finish, and the fact that I can't really work on it at home, but it is completely functional.
Not that I have to say this, but feel 110% free to do your worst if/when it is released .
Originally Posted by Hayo All I am saying is, either say something positive (makes the author feel good about his hobby) or constructive (makes the author better at stuff) or shut the hell up.
He asked me if I thought his game sucked, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.
I think it's up to the long term members to set the bar when it comes to feedback. I'm one of the guilty ones, I don't bother even downloading much anymore.
But ive said it loads of times now but meaningless praise is useless, especially in the long run. It's even used solely as a defence against slightly less positive comments. No matter how good you think a game is don't let the the person/persons that made it think they can't improve it! This will also kill off motivation to keep on creating things.
He asked me if I thought his game sucked, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.
Herp Derp
If you really think he literally wanted your opinion your IQ is indeed pretty low-end. If you really think my comment was just about this single case it's even worse.
Originally Posted by Matt Boothman This thread is fantastic. I'm sad that all the personal attacks ended, I'd started enjoying that reading through it.
Let's start again: Hagar, you're a fat gaylord; Circy, you lick toilet bowls and GamesterXIII, you have an IQ lower than your age. And I'm guessing you're 12. LET'S GET RRREADY TO RRRUUUUUMMMBBLLEEEEE.....
Yes having an opinion that strays from the norm around here and pushing people to try harder, make better games, and be humbly more critical of others means that my age, and apparently IQ are equivalent to or lower than that of a 12 year old.
Finish a game that looks great, has zero bugs and have everyone ignore you, then you can start spewing your opinions all over the place. I tried it and I looked like a moron, only I was new here, what's your excuse?
Gimme about 4 weeks.
By the way, I'm not trying to judge you personally, but I can almost 100% guarantee you that I won't like Halloween candy, and I don't have a place to play it at the moment (no computer setup at home for the moment.)
As for your other game (intense) that is in progress, it isn't the type of game that I particularly like so my opinion towards it is going to have a negative vibe regardless.
You are the dumbest man, here's why.
1. You continually say you have an opinion, yet your opinion only contains the what you think portion of it and no credible evidence on the subject. You might as well be arguing creationism to an evolutionist (god said so vs. scientific research). You're entire backing to your argument is pretty much, this is how I feel because it's how I feel.
2. You legit claim to have the super human power to accurately judge a book by it's cover. You want a critique board, great. But if you're going to use it to just rip on games (as well as encourage others to) based on the screen shots and quick description, then it is a terrible idea and all it will do is drive potential members away, seeing as how they'll have to rise to your outrageous standards. I mean come on, you just told everyone here that you don't like Intense because it's not the type of game that you like. Tell me, what type of game is Intense? You're capable of answering this question based on a quick video of one aspect of the gameplay and a description that intentionally has ZERO information?
3. You're trying to tell people how to do a job that you don't know how to do yourself. Once again, you've been here for an entire DECADE and you haven't finished ONE game. It's not like you're programming in Cobal, you're using click products, that's about as simple as you can get without using a cookie cutter engine. Give you about 4 weeks? You just said you can't even play games on your computer, how are you going to finish making a game in that time?
4. You just plain don't know how to act civilized. In the thread started by siven (I think) in the klik coding section about the rotating arm, you posted at while I was still in the process of finishing my post, which is fine, people do that here all the time. But then you had the nerve to point that out and act like the question was already answered (which you might as well have said "Waaaaah, i got here furst"), before the OP even had a chance to tell us if it worked or not, which it didn't, because the ATan2 function does not work in anything but MMF2 build 248+. I also took the time to elaborate more on different options on how to achieve the same effect, one of which worked for the OP. Now, isn't that more effective than trying to convince everyone else there's only one way to skin a cat?
It's okay to have an opinion, but you have to base it on something, not just "that's the way it is". No one is expecting only good praise, you moron. They want good FEEDBACK, which doesn't have to praise or even be from someone who enjoyed the game. If someone gets up and says your game sucks and gives a good explanation on why their opinion is justified, I'd consider that good feedback. And no, just saying "Omgeez that's not my cup of teez" doesn't constitute a valid explanation, ESPECIALLY from someone who hasn't even played the game before. It's even better if they describe what could be done to improve the game. And no "Omgeez, get rid ov bugs and make gfx better" doesn't work for that either.
I only had one instance of feedback on Halloween Candy from someone who did not enjoy the game, the kid was like 12 years old and even he can critique games better than you. He told me what he didn't like about it, why he didn't like it and what I could do to improve it. He might not know how to spell words correctly, but that doesn't mean his opinion is less valid (since it has a leg to stand on).
Every game has it's flaws, there is no such thing as the perfect game (seeing as how there is no video game that 100% of earth's population plays). If you want to push people, do it right. There are a million different ways to do it right, and you've managed to miss ALL OF THEM.
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That Really Hot Chick
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He asked me if I thought his game sucked, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.
Herp Derp
If you really think he literally wanted your opinion your IQ is indeed pretty low-end. If you really think my comment was just about this single case it's even worse.
You are a basket case.
Horrendous, I'm not even going to begin to read that, aha. I skimmed the first few moments of it and I don't even know why you bothered posting that.
I'm going on 1.5-2 hours of sleep and I have to finish some work so I'll try to respond once I'm done in 30-60 minutes or after I take a nap.
He asked me if I thought his game sucked, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.
Herp Derp
If you really think he literally wanted your opinion your IQ is indeed pretty low-end. If you really think my comment was just about this single case it's even worse.
You are a basket case.
Horrendous, I'm not even going to begin to read that, aha. I skimmed the first few moments of it and I don't even know why you bothered posting that.
I'm going on 1.5-2 hours of sleep and I have to finish some work so I'll try to respond once I'm done in 30-60 minutes or after I take a nap.
Haha, basket case, that's a new one. Once again proving my point that you're qualified to judge things you don't know. You're like talking to a tree.
A retarded tree.
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That Really Hot Chick
now on the Xbox Live Marketplace!
I dunno if I'm just tired, but I laughed pretty good at that troll.
Originally Posted by Johnny Look Retarded tree ? He looks more like this to me:
btw gamester you haven't told us what you have done in 10 years in this crappy community.
Nothing!
Besides finishing a game for the 02 xmas competition and losing it from a computer problem, unfortunately.
I wish that I could have submitted one of my superior masterpieces by now. (get it?)
Originally Posted by GamesterXIII It really just sounds to me like you took major offense to me talking about your games that I haven't played or something.
Calm down
This really is an hilarious comment. I have a right to comment on something I have never tried!
This thread is very entertaining on all sorts of levels - i won't go into that in any more detail though! Here's my two-penneth on a few things though;
1. We don't (really) need a Critique category in the Boards section - seriously, that's what the comments/boards sections on the Devlog/Downloads section is for, from what i can see. Why complicate things more? Just utilise what we have better. From experience, i've also used pm's to offer more private feedback to some members previously.
2. GamesterXIII, many of the points you have made have been sweeping and have little/nothing to back them up as fact. In fact, they come across as opinion nearly all the time (which isn't the worst thing in the world) though it does sometimes seem to most of us like you are getting the two (opinions and fact) muddled. Some examples of opinion that comes across as fact are;
"Any game that gets submitted here that has sub-par gameplay and even half decent graphics is an instant hit" - surely you've not played every game on here?
"Most of you guys ignore bugs because you don't think you can fix them or something" - how can you know this?
"Every game released within 2 weeks will almost inevetably suck and be ridden with bugs, which really aren't that hard to phase out if you try" - so we don't try? how do you know we don't try?
"Sorry, Nastyman, but I really don't think you try to push yourself to make better games, and everyone else, including myself, didn't bother pointing out what was wrong with the game aside from "the controls are slippery, but otherwise its good,"" - maybe it was only you that thought that there was more wrong with Nastyman's game other than the controls. Again, how can you know what we all think?
"I'm sorry that you take opinions personally and can't handle truths" - again, these are your opinions and this isn't the same as truth.
Even adam showed the example where 0 stars was given by you for a game with no feedback. It is actions like these that drive people's opinions of you, and therefore fuel actions against you.
If you'd like some feedback from me (and i'll try to balance it the best i can), then i would say...
you are very good at feeding users of TDC your opinions of games you've played on here. This is a good start as it can be used to help make game makers on TDC better by pointing out when they could improve their work. The trouble is, without specifics from you and ideas on solutions, it can come across as being overly critical. You could improve getting your point across more contructively by saying something like "it's a shame there was a short time-scale for completion as the bugs present spoilt the gameplay for me - i would prefer to see a game released bug-free after 4 weeks rather than a bug-riddled game after 2 weeks", rather than saying your opinion, i.e. "Every game released within 2 weeks will almost inevetably suck and be ridden with bugs, which really aren't that hard to phase out if you try".
Here, i have kept to specifics (using quotes) and tried to offer alternatives. To some, this sounds "sugary" and "nice-nice" but it is in fact a type of constructive criticism, or i like to call it, feedback.
3. As much as i disagree with GamesterXIII (and i really do), i think this is getting really out of hand! just my opinion...
You make a good point, but I still strongly disagree with you. I'm pretty sure a critique section will get more constructive replies (as that is the point right?) I don't really feel good pming someone about their game for a couple of reasons.
A. You might seem like a major douche because they didn't ask.
B. You will run into people on both ends of the spectrum : Some that don't care about getting critiques and some that don't. At least in a critique forum you would be much more likely to find people that actually do want crits.
"Any game that gets submitted here that has sub-par gameplay and even half decent graphics is an instant hit" - surely you've not played every game on here?
Of course not, but i've seen enough of this trend to know that most games that get submitted here that have good graphics get much more praise than ones that do not have great graphics, regardless of gameplay.
"Most of you guys ignore bugs because you don't think you can fix them or something" - how can you know this?
I don't . Actually, I'm pretty sure I've run across people talking about not worrying about bug x because "it isn't a big deal." (can be something as "small" as sinking in old platform engines.)
"Every game released within 2 weeks will almost inevetably suck and be ridden with bugs, which really aren't that hard to phase out if you try" - so we don't try? how do you know we don't try?
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I should have said large games. Small games aren't impossible to create in 2 weeks, but they aren't easy if you're not completely prepared and motivated. A lot of people seem to try to create huge adventures in 2 weeks, which is just way too little time, no matter who you are.
"Sorry, Nastyman, but I really don't think you try to push yourself to make better games, and everyone else, including myself, didn't bother pointing out what was wrong with the game aside from "the controls are slippery, but otherwise its good,"" - maybe it was only you that thought that there was more wrong with Nastyman's game other than the controls. Again, how can you know what we all think?
I'm not answering this.
tl;dr
I still really think that TDC could benefit from a critique forum.
Originally Posted by GamesterXIII It really just sounds to me like you took major offense to me talking about your games that I haven't played or something.
Calm down
I am calm, and I don't take offense to anything you've said. Why would I take offense to someone who has no leg to stand on? You made a stupid point, I called you on it, and rather than admit you made a mistake, you continued to argue a weak standpoint. I rarely ever get offended or bothered by anything anymore. I just like to argue, do we have a problem with that?
And as Hayo mentioned earlier, why are you making this about you and me? Clearly you can see my posts have been about the situation in general and you trying to force your opinions on everyone else with no basis. But you would've understood that if you had actually read anything I wrote instead of coming up with an unrelated synopsis based on the cliff notes. If you're tired, great, but just take a deep breath and forget about it, this thread will be here when you wake up.
All we're tying to say is don't knock it until you've tried it, and you can give people suggestions on how to do it better, but if you sound like a douche and you haven't given any proof as to how you have any clue on how to do it better, than why should we take you seriously?
We can get along just fine, I just have a very low tolerance for ignorance, especially when that person fights tooth an nail to justify it. Is it really that hard to just say "Alright, well, maybe I might be wrong, let me try to see things from your point of view."? You could try to argue the same thing about my standpoint, but I can assure you I've been there before.
You got angry because something you tried to do didn't go over as well as you had hoped, and something you felt wasn't as good got more attention, this isn't the only place that happens, so it's not entirely fair to single it out for such. You just have to take into consideration that this is a small group of people that are pretty busy with their own projects.
I've said it many times, this is a community of developing games, not the best place for having people play your games. The only reason I got that feedback on Halloween Candy was because I worked for it, I went around playing as many of the other games around that same general time of release, gave my feedback on them, and eventually one of the people I had gave feedback to actually conversed with me about it. Then, I eventually asked him to do the same for my game. But really I think it was also Hayo (maybe Lambert, I don't remember off hand) that told me that the major problem with my game was that it came out of nowhere with no hype, and it was out of season.
And you've demonstrated another point on why there isn't many people playing games on here, people are superficial and will judge your game based on the screen shots and description. That's how it's always been, people do it all the time, otherwise why would you need a cover for your book, a title or a description? Do you expect 1000's of people to try your crap just because you told them to? The only difference is most people keep that to themselves and move on, because they know that doesn't count as constructive criticism on the game itself, you're trying to argue that it does.
I'm not going to lie, it is frustrating when you work really hard on something and no one cares, but if you haven't payed any attention to what they have done, wouldn't that make you just as bad?
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Originally Posted by Marko This thread is very entertaining on all sorts of levels - i won't go into that in any more detail though! Here's my two-penneth on a few things though;
1. We don't (really) need a Critique category in the Boards section - seriously, that's what the comments/boards sections on the Devlog/Downloads section is for, from what i can see. Why complicate things more? Just utilise what we have better. From experience, i've also used pm's to offer more private feedback to some members previously.
2. GamesterXIII, many of the points you have made have been sweeping and have little/nothing to back them up as fact. In fact, they come across as opinion nearly all the time (which isn't the worst thing in the world) though it does sometimes seem to most of us like you are getting the two (opinions and fact) muddled. Some examples of opinion that comes across as fact are;
"Any game that gets submitted here that has sub-par gameplay and even half decent graphics is an instant hit" - surely you've not played every game on here?
"Most of you guys ignore bugs because you don't think you can fix them or something" - how can you know this?
"Every game released within 2 weeks will almost inevetably suck and be ridden with bugs, which really aren't that hard to phase out if you try" - so we don't try? how do you know we don't try?
"Sorry, Nastyman, but I really don't think you try to push yourself to make better games, and everyone else, including myself, didn't bother pointing out what was wrong with the game aside from "the controls are slippery, but otherwise its good,"" - maybe it was only you that thought that there was more wrong with Nastyman's game other than the controls. Again, how can you know what we all think?
"I'm sorry that you take opinions personally and can't handle truths" - again, these are your opinions and this isn't the same as truth.
Even adam showed the example where 0 stars was given by you for a game with no feedback. It is actions like these that drive people's opinions of you, and therefore fuel actions against you.
If you'd like some feedback from me (and i'll try to balance it the best i can), then i would say...
you are very good at feeding users of TDC your opinions of games you've played on here. This is a good start as it can be used to help make game makers on TDC better by pointing out when they could improve their work. The trouble is, without specifics from you and ideas on solutions, it can come across as being overly critical. You could improve getting your point across more contructively by saying something like "it's a shame there was a short time-scale for completion as the bugs present spoilt the gameplay for me - i would prefer to see a game released bug-free after 4 weeks rather than a bug-riddled game after 2 weeks", rather than saying your opinion, i.e. "Every game released within 2 weeks will almost inevetably suck and be ridden with bugs, which really aren't that hard to phase out if you try".
Here, i have kept to specifics (using quotes) and tried to offer alternatives. To some, this sounds "sugary" and "nice-nice" but it is in fact a type of constructive criticism, or i like to call it, feedback.
3. As much as i disagree with GamesterXIII (and i really do), i think this is getting really out of hand! just my opinion...
I just have to say those are remarkable points, you carried yourself very well. I'll have to admit I was one of those who lumped opinion and fact. Thank you for taking much more time than I to pull up the exact quotes, therefor leading to a much better argument on the subject.
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That Really Hot Chick
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I don't know about anyone else; i'd rather have someone comment on my game in the Devlog/Downloads/pm sections than some generic forum in a Critic section. In the Devlog/Downloads/pm sections the critique would feel more constructive, rather than feeling like "shooting and running" in a forum not directly related to my game. It would feel to me kind of like "tell me to my face, not talk about me behind my back".
Also, from the feedback i've had with private pm's concerning games, here are some genuine quotes i've received from private feedback(names with-held);
"will do when i get home thank you"
"They're not animated, but that is a good idea. And thanks for the compliment on the site." - i became a member of this person's project with the game quoted about here
"Yes it helps.. I'll take a closer look at your findings and go back to development to fix it. Thanks"
From experience, the response you get from the person you pm relies upon how you come across with your original pm. I try to be balanced when i approach people, saying things like "hey, i really liked .... but i was thinking you could make .... better by trying ....! Hope it helps!" and of course, being genuine. I never onced lied when praising people. Even the newest of noobs has a talent that shines through their noobish games, and i like to find that and let them know.
I was just going to come up with a decent reply to your post, like I did with Marko. I just didn't read the entire thing and was going to wait until later.
I don't get it. What did I do that didn't go over well that I'm angry about?
"Do you expect 1000's of people to try your crap just because you told them to? The only difference is most people keep that to themselves and move on, because they know that doesn't count as constructive criticism on the game itself, you're trying to argue that it does"
I don't even understand what you are trying to say here. If you're saying the things I say aren't constructive,which you probably aren't, its because they aren't.
Even if I were to go criticise something constructively on a projects page or downloads page it would probably get ignored or drowned out from the million "awesome" comments or the lack of visitation to those pages.
I'm just not getting what point you're trying to make with this last post, sorry.
I don't know about anyone else; i'd rather have someone comment on my game in the Devlog/Downloads/pm sections than some generic forum in a Critic section. In the Devlog/Downloads/pm sections the critique would feel more constructive, rather than feeling like "shooting and running" in a forum not directly related to my game. It would feel to me kind of like "tell me to my face, not talk about me behind my back".
Also, from the feedback i've had with private pm's concerning games, here are some genuine quotes i've received from private feedback(names with-held);
"will do when i get home thank you"
"They're not animated, but that is a good idea. And thanks for the compliment on the site." - i became a member of this person's project with the game quoted about here
"Yes it helps.. I'll take a closer look at your findings and go back to development to fix it. Thanks"
From experience, the response you get from the person you pm relies upon how you come across with your original pm. I try to be balanced when i approach people, saying things like "hey, i really liked .... but i was thinking you could make .... better by trying ....! Hope it helps!" and of course, being genuine. I never onced lied when praising people. Even the newest of noobs has a talent that shines through their noobish games, and i like to find that and let them know.
I don't doubt any of this, but I still feel as if a forum would have a better focus. Like I and at least one other person have said already - Receiving feedback while in the development process and after a game is completed are almost two completely different things and can make a world of difference.
Its a teeny bit lik saying people should post asking for klik coding help in downloads sections or pm someone about it instead of on the forum because its cooler to get more individualised help.
Originally Posted by GamesterXIII How am I making it about You and I?
I was just going to come up with a decent reply to your post, like I did with Marko. I just didn't read the entire thing and was going to wait until later.
I don't get it. What did I do that didn't go over well that I'm angry about?
"Do you expect 1000's of people to try your crap just because you told them to? The only difference is most people keep that to themselves and move on, because they know that doesn't count as constructive criticism on the game itself, you're trying to argue that it does"
I don't even understand what you are trying to say here. If you're saying the things I say aren't constructive,which you probably aren't, its because they aren't.
Even if I were to go criticise something constructively on a projects page or downloads page it would probably get ignored or drowned out from the million "awesome" comments or the lack of visitation to those pages.
I'm just not getting what point you're trying to make with this last post, sorry.
I have nothing more to say except...
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That Really Hot Chick
now on the Xbox Live Marketplace!
Originally Posted by GamesterXIII "Do you expect 1000's of people to try your crap just because you told them to? The only difference is most people keep that to themselves and move on, because they know that doesn't count as constructive criticism on the game itself, you're trying to argue that it does"
No, but we expect people to play a game before saying it's a piece of shit.
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
Originally Posted by Zephni imma go all admin on your ass and say if it don't stop im gonna delete the thread
I'll do you one further.
I am an admin and this topic is locked!
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That Really Hot Chick
now on the Xbox Live Marketplace!
Administrone Messoose: This tropic has been loosed.
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That Really Hot Chick
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I think Shab is saying he is one of the least likely moderators to ban Phizzy because they're friends. Although if you feel a ban is warranted and you're doing your job properly (ie no favouritism) then it's a pretty standard action isnt it?
I just wanted to say that I don't really know who this phizzy guy was, except reading that one post that phizzyphan linked, but i think you should invite him back. It's kinda boring without trolls here, everbody is so serius.
Originally Posted by Don Luciano I just wanted to say that I don't really know who this phizzy guy was, except reading that one post that phizzyphan linked, but i think you should invite him back. It's kinda boring without trolls here, everbody is so serius.
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