so we all know this wonderful saying: the community is dying
I've to admit at some point in time I even believed this until I found out there IS stuff going on in the community. there always is stuff going on and the front page of tdc isn't the community.
What I am saying here is that I have noticed a terrible lack of news for years now and I felt like addressing it (yeh its not just because its Christmas time and everyone is busy. it has been like this for a long long time now)
why?
here are some thing that never made it front page:
clickteam announces the winners of its halloween competition
clickteam gets a new forum
clickteam has a christmas competition
3 popular members (bernie, yair, duncan) submit games which took days to show up on TDC and then don't get any front page coverage
I agree with you, but not only has there been a lack of news, there is a lack of everything compared to the past. Lets just take a a random game from the downloads first page: YokuZaur by NastyMan
It has only one comment and it came out on the 5th of December.
Then we take a look at Spiderhead demo by Blackgaze (released in 2004), which has 22 comments on the first day and it was just a demo.
I submitted a few games to the downloads but they havent been approved yet. Not sure whether its been long enough to consider the mostly dead community as a reason why.
I have also made a topic reporting some bugs, and no one has responded yet. And to me they are the kind of bugs that are inexcusable. The one I reported was that I cant edit posts and I get an error. However I will also report now that I can't view my favorites list, that gives a similar error too.
So it kinda seems like the community isnt being maintained enough anymore.
Its a shame, cause I just joined this site a few days ago because its features looked good. Too bad a lot of them don't work and there's not much activity to enjoy,
Not sure what's going on, but there only seems to be about 2 to 3 admins these days that post on the front page. There's gotta be a few sparks of sweet humanity left in this burned-out bird. We just gotta find a way to mobilize it!
p.s. Fordom for once I agree with you. I legitimately own MMF2, I see no reason why I should take my time to provide a serial to post on a forum.
I can't speak on behalf of the other admins (just be aware that Rikus and OMC are no longer part of the team) but I will speak on behalf of myself.
I've been doing that thing... you know, being BUSY. Christmas does tend to have an effect, especially when personal circumstances are involved. I've simply not had a proper opportunity to update the site this past week. I've been away from home for a while, but I'll do some updating tomorrow or Wednesday.
Also, when I accept game submissions I tend to write about them generally and not ignore them. I am somewhat surprised that games have been accepted, but no write-ups have appeared about them.
Clubsoft is in the States at the moment and has stated that he'll take a look at things involving the site when he gets back.
And, if you'd noticed I had done a lot of updating prior to Christmas, but things like family members dying, and anniversaries of other family member deaths are somewhat more important. So I'm sorry if I've been "lazy" and inconvenienced you all by "not giving a shit."
Don't worry about it, it's been the Holiday period. Most normal people with lives are usually too busy to be worrying about forums when they have time off from work to spend with family and friends.
Originally Posted by bernie[FA] I keep wanting to post stuff in the forums but can't seem to find the time. Maybe I'm getting old, wrinkly and grumpy!!
I was hoping the new exporters would bring more life into the community. What would help? Articles? Programming resources? Not sure. :/
like I've said, my friend, there IS stuff going on. so there IS life in the community- it's just that the admins and moderators of TDC don't talk about it so everything SEEMS very dead while it's not.
Originally Posted by -Adam- Don't worry about it, it's been the Holiday period. Most normal people with lives are usually too busy to be worrying about forums when they have time off from work to spend with family and friends.
clickteam announces the winners of its halloween competition
I really love how Halloween has nothing to do with Christmas.
This is by far one of the most ignorant statements I've seen made on this site in a long time. I sure hope you're proud of yourself.
It's not the 2D gaming that's dead... it's the amount of honest and genuine work and effort that goes into making a good 2D game. No modern game demonstrates what can happen when the appropriate level of just those two ingredients are put in full force.
And what's funny is this level of quality is not beyond the grasp of an indie developer. It might take a little longer but the fact that indie developers don't need to worry about a huge company breathing down their backs to make it 3D, include guns and explosions, and make it as realistic as possible, not only does it not impede the games ability to be a unique masterpiece, but if anything enhances the chances it has to break the template of what the Hollywood of the modern gaming industry, seems to think is a guaranteed to be successful, formula.
Fact of the matter is... good 2D games in many cases, prove to be more challenging to make than 3D games, because they are forced to work with more restrictions, forcing the developers true creativity to show.
Silveraura, you fake satanist, you know little of what you talk about. 2D gaming IS dead on the computer platform.
Ifit's not dead then it's dying. Nobody plays 2D games "for real" like they play Battlefield and CS, etc.
Only for a while for minor amuesment.
Originally Posted by Fordom Silveraura, you fake satanist, you know little of what you talk about. 2D gaming IS dead on the computer platform.
Ifit's not dead then it's dying. Nobody plays 2D games "for real" like they play Battlefield and CS, etc.
Only for a while for minor amuesment.
Wait a second, who are you again? OH wait... okay, I get it. You're trolling. *claps*
I mean only a troll would be so blatantly ignorant toward both gaming and faith in an attempt to make such a foolish stab. I would hate to think you actually thought Battlefield and CS were good representations for what gamers play "for real." Fortunately I can put that fear to rest knowing you're clearly not serious. Thank you.
No really, thank you. Some people are much better at hiding their intentional stupidity, making it harder to tell if they're really trolling. You flat out waved the flag of stupidity, saving me a lot of humiliation when I finally found out that you were just having fun getting a raise out of me.
2D gaming is dead, unless it's a puzzle game or a game built around a physics gimmick. You think I'm ignorant, I think you're delusional. Games like Battlefield and COD are offering new levels of immersion, throwing you right in the driver's seat of different types of unique vehicles, graphics looking more realistic than ever, allowing you to look right down the ironsights and take aim against the most realistic AI to date. With all this now accessible to pretty much everyone, it's clear to see why this place and Gamemaker's forums are dead. No-one wants to play as a 2D character in a bland world where only one side of things are seen... stuck with a camera anchored to the player object, can't see more than a few metres away from the character, low levels of immersion, ability to move and manipulate only two axis. 2D gaming will be eradicated from mobile devices soon, too, as they're becoming more powerful with better screens with each release.
Discarded pizza boxes are an indispensable source of cheese.
Anyone saying 2D games are dead is not seeing the bigger picture. Granted, 3D games have been more or less the standard since 1997 or so, but only in the entertainment sector, the games for the dumb masses. We all know the mass has the sophistication level of a 12 year old. They indeed only play 2D games when it's a flashgame or a mobile game.
On a more sophisticated level (I am not even talking about "art games"), 2D games won't be dead as long as people make and play them. I only have to look at my MMF students to know this is still the case and will always be.
What worries me though, this used to be a community site filled with people with a passion for original (mostly 2D) games. Apart from the occasional shit like Pod people were encouraging. In the last few years this has turned to a "meh" culture. Just the fact that people state that 2D gaming is dead ON A SITE THAT HAS MAINLY BEEN ABOUT MAKING 2D GAMES says it all. No wonder developers left, admins are less motivated and our beloved leader stepped down!
It will all work out though, we are just in a long transitional phase.
Originally Posted by marky_2 2D gaming is dead, unless it's a puzzle game or a game built around a physics gimmick. You think I'm ignorant, I think you're delusional. Games like Battlefield and COD are offering new levels of immersion, throwing you right in the driver's seat of different types of unique vehicles, graphics looking more realistic than ever, allowing you to look right down the ironsights and take aim against the most realistic AI to date. With all this now accessible to pretty much everyone, it's clear to see why this place and Gamemaker's forums are dead. No-one wants to play as a 2D character in a bland world where only one side of things are seen... stuck with a camera anchored to the player object, can't see more than a few metres away from the character, low levels of immersion, ability to move and manipulate only two axis. 2D gaming will be eradicated from mobile devices soon, too, as they're becoming more powerful with better screens with each release.
We are on the same page. Everyone woul prefer 3d if their device supported it.
3D is always an improvement
Hayo is right. 2D gaming is not dead, and if you believe so I recommend you open your eyes (Super Mario Bros Wii, All-Stars has been re-released, the new Rayman game, Terraria, etc). Also I fail to see this mentality that if a game is not like real life, it's not fun. I am going to create a super realistic COD game. I am going to place numerous rifles, guns and armaments around the TV. When you die in game, a solenoid can activate the weapon that killed you, to kill you in real life. Full immersion! I will probably make millions off the masses!
Also to top it off regardless of the 2D/3D argument, most old school FPS gamers will tell you that COD etc are all slow and boring. I have much more fun playing serious sam HD or quake 3, all games with relatively dire graphics but they have no recovering health, no looking down "iron sights" all the time, and no taking one shot and camping whilst your health recovers.
Also baffled by the user base of TDC sometimes. We are all here making on the most part 2D games, yet we have such attitudes present. No wonder the community hardly does anything any more, there is hardly any constructiveness these days.
Fordom you are a bad troll, I will give you an F until your performance improves.
Originally Posted by Fordom Do try to sound smart, fake satanist.
lol.
Besides that, there will always be an active community of 2D game developers because that's just how every single developer gets their start. To me, it seems we have a lot of MMF2 users here who have been with Clickteam products for a long time. I remember when I first used K'n'P and came here, and I felt accepted because there were so many other brand new developers just like me - granted my games were bad but that didn't matter, everyone still accepted me.
We don't seem to be attracting any more budding young developers, maybe the lack of them now is detering any new ones joining? While Circy is doing a great job (imo anyway, he's one guy) we could probably do with some more equally active admins. (Even though every new game shouldn't really make it to the front page, I remember regarding it with some kind of honour when a game was featured).
Troll? Because i disagree with you?
Cod can muck off. Battlefield is the real deal. If you fail to see how realism in games can attract such a big audience then you, sir, are a troll.
Reasons why realism is gooD
1. Sadists can jerk off to the excessive violence
2. It's like real lif eONLY YOU AN'T DIE AND THE SKY IS THE LIMIT.
3. Can you fly military helicopters irl? Can you drive tanks?
4. You don't need to follow the rules of society
Clearly it's no coincidence that the members who are in agreeance here over the truth of 2D gaming, are the ones who have significantly more veterancy here. Not that I'm suggesting there's a direct correlation, just suggesting that the people who have been in the community longer seem to have a deeper appreciation for the 2D genre.
Maybe you'll understand a little more, when real 3D TV's are being shoved down your throats and you're trying to convince new game developers that you didn't need things to be real 3D to have a perfectly real and very positive gaming experience. Sure, there's probably more depth but in an ironic turn of events, the games often suffer from careless use of it.
Case in point: Sonic was a brilliant 2D platform game. It's attempt to land the 3D gaming scene was absolutely terrible because it's not the same thing + more awesomeness... it's a completely different ballgame. It worked so well on 2D because it truly was designed and optimized for 2D. Which is EXACTLY why... Sonic's first truly good game of the decade, Sonic Generations, was incidentally most likely a result of the fact that it featured the classic 2D gameplay.
Of course, fighting someones ignorance when their basis upon such ignorance is a world foolishly believed to be reality, is a losing battle. So whatever, if you want to shut off a truly great genre of gaming on a foolish notion that it's dead, far be it from anyone more informed than you, to try to change your mind.
Also, you're not going to get a rise out of me for calling me a satanist. I wear a pentacle necklace, you act like it's the first time I've been ignorantly mislabeled as satanic. Not that you even know what a true satanist is, I'm probably wasting my time by telling you that I'm not, since you either already know and/or don't care. Grow up.
The problem with sonic 3D was that it wasent from the side. It can be a side scroller and 3D, to add some depth.
If sonic was 3d and a side scroller it would be super good.
Originally Posted by Fordom The problem with sonic 3D was that it wasent from the side. It can be a side scroller and 3D, to add some depth.
If sonic was 3d and a side scroller it would be super good.
Originally Posted by Fordom The problem with sonic 3D was that it wasent from the side. It can be a side scroller and 3D, to add some depth.
If sonic was 3d and a side scroller it would be super good.
You're acting like we're officially past the day and age where you can have an incredibly artistic game that would only properly work with 2D graphics - even if they were high definition and incredibly detailed and quite beautiful - as in the case with Rayman: Origins.
3D games have their place, but neither of you have been able to make a single good point for why 2D gaming deserves to die. I'm not trying to be an ass by saying that either, I'm being completely honest.
In fact, by simply suggesting that you can have a platformer on a 2D plane with 3D graphics, you're directly contradicting one of marky_2's points, which is the supposed "low level of immersion, ability to move and manipulate only two axis" when incidentally... a 3D game operating strictly on a 2D pane like Sonic Generations, has no more movement flexibility than if that game had 2D graphics. Not saying you're both entirely on the same page with this, but you're both fighting on a similar side of the argument, so I thought I'd point that out.
And look, I will continue to come back to Rayman: Origins on this, because it truly is, in my opinion, the best and most modern example of how successful a game can be at proving it's legitimacy as a pretty amazing game, despite explicitly taking the direction of strict 2D graphics and gameplay. Because if I mention classics, it'll be way too easy for someone to bat my argument down as being simply nostalgic.
I'm really sorry that I haven't been able to keep up with everything lately. >.< To put it simply: I have other priorities right now. I finally got a proper job for the first time in three years and I don't want to mess it up.
I think Chris has been doing a decent job updating the site, all things considered. I also think that because Rikus officially retired, we should try looking for another active community member to fill in the void. That's just my opinion though, and I can't speak for the rest of the team just yet.
Alright aside from Fordam who is clearly trolling and close to getting banned, I'm really not liking the vibe of this topic in general. Too many judgements are being made. Some people prefer 3D games, others prefer 2D. Everyone's different. State your opinion but there's no need to try and prove that your way of thinking is at the top. You need to use the elements of harmony or Discord will win!
I can say for certain that 2D games are NOT dead, there's plenty of people that still use both Game Maker and MMF, and I doubt its ever gonna change. I definitely prefer to make 2D games. As cool as it may sound to have 3D models and stuff, I think it would take WAAAAY more work, and therefore become stressful and not fun for me anymore. Bcause I just cant grasp that kinda thing, thats just me.
Everyone has a preference in gaming but to outright say 2D gaming is dead is a complete nonsense .
In regard to point 3 mentioned earlier, I stopped wanting to fly military helicopters and drive tanks when I was 12 . I just no reason why something has to look "real" to be fun, some of my most favourite games are 3D (I have lots of favourite 2D games too) but look nothing like real life... Gameplay > Graphics.
Originally Posted by ..::hagar::.. Everyone has a preference in gaming but to outright say 2D gaming is dead is a complete nonsense .
In regard to point 3 mentioned earlier, I stopped wanting to fly military helicopters and drive tanks when I was 12 . I just no reason why something has to look "real" to be fun, some of my most favourite games are 3D (I have lots of favourite 2D games too) but look nothing like real life... Gameplay > Graphics.
When does it stop beeing fun to fly a helicopter?!
The realer it looks the better. Imagination only goes so far...
Originally Posted by ..::hagar::.. Everyone has a preference in gaming but to outright say 2D gaming is dead is a complete nonsense .
In regard to point 3 mentioned earlier, I stopped wanting to fly military helicopters and drive tanks when I was 12 . I just no reason why something has to look "real" to be fun, some of my most favourite games are 3D (I have lots of favourite 2D games too) but look nothing like real life... Gameplay > Graphics.
When does it stop beeing fun to fly a helicopter?!
The realer it looks the better. Imagination only goes so far...
When did this become a 2D games vs 3D games thread?
Originally Posted by Strife I'm really sorry that I haven't been able to keep up with everything lately. >.< To put it simply: I have other priorities right now. I finally got a proper job for the first time in three years and I don't want to mess it up.
I think Chris has been doing a decent job updating the site, all things considered. I also think that because Rikus officially retired, we should try looking for another active community member to fill in the void. That's just my opinion though, and I can't speak for the rest of the team just yet.
Sounds good to me, hopefully you guys can find somebody!
I think as long as someone makes them, 2D games will always be around. People still play cards, checkers, and board games and most people said they'd be replaced by videogames. We all love distraction and trends tend to rotate. In the 70's people wore bell bottoms and today my neice wears flares. Even if it drops off for a while I think it will come back. As for the admins... everyone deserves a little holiday time.
I originally wanted to send this as a PM, but I figure there's something for everyone to read here.
It's bad enough that MasterM is complaining about a volunteer-run site to which he hasn't contributed any games, and very likely hasn't donated cash to keep running. At least you've been here and posting messages and some well-done reviews for a few years. But Fordom, of all people, pissing and moaning about people he doesn't even know somehow slacking off is absolutely pathetic.
How about this, Fordom? You try running a significant project - website or otherwise - for absolutely no cost to users and for no paycheck, and try to keep going for even six months while people complain and criticize you for not catering to their every whim. I triple-Dogzer-dare you, pal.
Seriously, if I was an admin here I'd tell you to piss right off, and that the work will be done when it's done.
I've been in a similar position in the past, owning and operating a labor of love for the good of 'the community' for an entirely different arena, and I can say with authority that when whiners complain about my supposed lack of effort and dedication to "their" cause, it only encourages people to keep these kinds of things on the back-burner.
What, like someone who hasn't contributed anything worthwhile to the website is going to have their complaints answered just because they complain constantly?
You are a consumer of other people's effort, nothing more. You are what Daniel Quinn calls a Taker. If you offered more to this website than inane racist commentary (masquerading as a militant Scandinavian, of all things) or backhanded critique, then maybe people would take you seriously.
And let me know when you have your website up and running. I'll be sure to send you a message every once in a while to let you know you're "lazy and don't give a shit".
I mean, shame on you dude. Grow up and start giving back to something.
To the admins: a three-legged dog can still walk. But this dog CAN grow its leg back and keep on running. Go to it.
I have to agree, the entitlement mentality of the zombie class of society is uncanny. We have a "right" to someone providing us free education! free healthcare! and free regular posts/features/downloads/updates on THE DAILY CLICK!
I know this text will be tl : dr so I have provided RANDOM unrelated art I did to make it more fun. i haven't posted art on here for years for certain reasons (the same why i dont post games).
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Well we all know that Danish guy is just a troll. I don't think he is any real person. Its just an alias of another member.
I am glad we are back on topic yet I'd like to point out 2d certainly isn't dead and as a form of art it will never die. Also Rayman Origins is one of the best platformers ever made with very beautiful graphics and great humor and that comes from a guy who has played countless of platformers so it means a lot if I say it's one of the best.
I didn't really want to sound harsh and I kinda think people probably misinterpreted what I've said.
I know I will never get any respect anywhere for being one of the oldest members around. I've been to many communities and a lot of people come and a lot of people go.
Now I've been a member here and a member of many other click community sites even before I had joined tdc. I think that should stand for something.
I hope you realize I really care about this community. Overall I'm doing this since 1994 and I'm still there so I hope you can see how important this is to me.
It's just that three big members made games and nothing shows up on the front page.
Like I had also said please don't use Christmas as an excuse. Some people ignored that and used it to attack me.
That's also a thing of tdc. Some members are just negative with everything they say but it's fine.
Overall I love this place and try to make it a funny place by writing stuff I find to be amusing even though I'm fully aware you might lable this as a rant now. Please don't.
Often I had thought the community is dying but then I'm surprised what news I find on Facebook or the clickteam forums. Stuff I never hear about on tdc because it's a circle jerk.
Do I have to contribute games in order to speak my mind?
That statement of you bothered me a lot.
Of course is tdc free but so are most thing on the internet. Does that mean I'm not allowed to point out stuff about it?
Let's apply that logic. Say I submit a crappy game and you write a review saying "it's crap" I could reply "oh yeh is it? But it's free. I've made it for you to download so how dare you say anything negative about my game?"
It's just like when people say "I don't like that drawing" and someone replies "I want to see you do better". That is totally not the point.
Also we've had a lot of great admins and circy is doing an awesome job. He is been here for ages as well (well I remember how he joined) and I respect him for that. He also cares about the community and is a great guy. It's also awesome he made a news post on the front page about recent events. Love him for that.
Just don't make it look like I was like that Danish dude. Don't make it look like I was a random fuck who just rides the train for only two stations and while he is on there he farts into everyone's face.
Besides that I've applied for admin status several times.
Kudos to you for speaking up, MasterM. However, it wasn't you I was ranting about. I know you've been here for several years, giving feedback on people's projects and reviews on the more popular games from back in the day. You have some actual weight behind the words you say (and I've liked you even more after changing your avatar picture ). But in my opinion it would have been a disservice to TDC to let Fordom's (ignorant) comments go unanswered.
I honestly think that it may have been more effective to send your message to one of the admins, but the cat's out of the bag, so to speak.
But additionally, I think it's worthwhile for everyone to reconsider how they carry themselves and treat others on the Internet, particularly in light of so many no-charge services that are available, from e-mail to message boards to video- and game-posting sites.
Here's to hoping we collectively raise the bar for netiquette in 2012.
MasterM I do not think anyone on this thread dislikes you or has set about to attack you. We all know TDC needs a reboot or something but I think being careful with admins enthusiasm was the point SMR was trying to convey. I used to moan on here sometimes, but I have lightened up (to try and keep morale and admin enthusiasm high).
You're another old fart, and one of the few I remember being on here "back in the day" so .
Back on topic, I do think the internet manners are abysmal. On another site I used to visit, I made a huge lengthy post to help this guy stuck on a problem (non game related). Because I started from basics and built up to a complex level, he took offence and went on a huge rant to prove his competence in the field, completely negating the fact I gave him some answers and pointers to the problem at hand. It does make you think "Why did I bother?". I hope TDC improves (apart from the odd bad egg its not too bad at all already), but I can only see the internet as a whole getting worse.
[quote]But additionally, I think it's worthwhile for everyone to reconsider how they carry themselves and treat others on the Internet, particularly in light of so many no-charge services that are available, from e-mail to message boards to video- and game-posting sites.
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). But in my opinion it would have been a disservice to TDC to let Fordom's (ignorant) comments go unanswered.
