The problem now is just the fact that so many of our higher class teams have faded out. Not like "we made 1 game together, we're a team", team. I'm talking about good solid teams that came together on their own and pumped out a good number of very high quality games as a result.
TDC itself though hasn't really changed too much negatively. It's just changed and members grow up. They are no longer the younger amateurs surrounded by these big members who know what they're talking about, so they feel like the community is taking a nose dive when those older members move on and newer members take the place they formally had. Little do we realize, members like Hayo and Assault Andy, and nim (just to name a few random veterans, we're the members that the newer members looked up to, similar to how we looked up to the veterans of our arrival.
TDC isn't the only site that's dying... "Indie" game sites on a whole are dying. They're full of boring 2D games with splashy-graphics and rotation effects that no-one could possibly enjoy. No-one wants to play 2D games anymore. MMF really needs to make the transition into 3D.
Discarded pizza boxes are an indispensable source of cheese.
Objection! 2D games are still quite popular, especially among handheld consoles, and I honestly don't think interest in them will die out anytime soon (at least within our forseeable lifetime). For an example of this, look no further than Mega Man 10, Capcom's most recent official entry into the classic MM series. Same case with MM9.
There are definitely certain types of games out there that look and feel way better with hand-drawn 2D sprites as opposed to 3D models and polygons. Since it's often a lot easier and faster than building 3D models, I think it will remain a definite option for game developers for quite a while. To sum it up, I think there's other factors at work that are contributing to the decline of indie game development websites.
Originally Posted by Strife For an example of this, look no further than Mega Man 10, Capcom's most recent official entry into the classic MM series. Same case with MM9.
I'm afraid not many clickers have 20 year-old classics under their belt to make retro sequels to that will get nostalgic fans in an uproar.
Though I agree that 2D is still very viable. And I also agree that some 3D would do us good.
Big difference was that in 2003, people were complaining about too much activity, now people are complaining about too little
Then again, things have changed quite a lot, and nobody even uses the built-in MMF movements these days. Higher bar for everything, less games released.
2D's perfectly fine, IMO. Just look at one of the most popular games out there.. Dwarf Fortress doesn't even have graphics and it's got a huge fan base. But if you're relying on graphics, not gameplay, you have no other choice than 3D. And if you're in it for the money. 3D has a very poor quality to effort ratio... if you've ever worked with it, you'll realize that adding one dimension more than doubles the workload. Indie games tend to put all that effort into providing something new and different, but unfortunately, 90% of everything is crap.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Originally Posted by marky_2 TDC isn't the only site that's dying... "Indie" game sites on a whole are dying. They're full of boring 2D games with splashy-graphics and rotation effects that no-one could possibly enjoy. No-one wants to play 2D games anymore. MMF really needs to make the transition into 3D.
I whole heartedly object. While I think there is a lot of potential for 3D, we will absolutely not be seeing any worth while good full 3D games. The only element 3D would be used to any real benefit here would be to spice up what we already currently make and since we probably wont see much in terms of power and capability seeing as MMF2 is only just recently being able to hold it's own weight with visuals on 2D graphics, the idea of using 3D graphics to improve a game visually seems kind of directly contradictory to what we would get.
We're talking at best, creating games at maybe N64 quality and by todays standards, no one is going to pick up an indie game like that. Indie games are praised for being fun and being polished among other things, but these are two key elements. N64 quality graphics scream lack of polish by todays standards. And don't give me crap about how graphics aren't everything. Graphics may not be, but polish is a massive all around quality because it encompasses everything from visuals to gameplay and audio. It's a package deal that can be screwed up real fast if they don't all compliment each other. Bad graphics that directly conflict with it's gameplay and audio, will completely break a game, no matter how good the other elements are. In fact, making them even better might go even further in making it worse. Older games compliment each other so well because their all around polish matches themselves so well. The music, gameplay, and visuals are all in tune with itself. Anyone with skill in all of these fields can prove that today by making a game of the same balance and receive the same high level of praise. Eternal Daughter is... almost close... to achieving this, and that by itself was an achievement in the community, one of which the game was praised for.
I think we are overlooking 3D a bit. Why would we have to make N64-like gfx when we go 3D? Are we just reenacting game history then? We could use 3D graphics to real interesting effect.
To achieve 3D though, Clickteam would either need to make it so simple that everyone could do it, or innovate it and make it too complex to be worth the slight increase of effect. Don't get me wrong, I would accept 3D with open arms, but I'm just a little pessimistic about the idea because I just don't see how it could be done. It took them how many years just to release MMF2. I'm personally grateful that they're still supporting the software so well and aside from the Flash plugin, are keeping all of their additions to the software free.
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