This is in response to recent bannings including, but not soley, that of JP.
I believe we need a better punishment system. Banning is stupid as it only increases the hatred against admins. People can just start new accounts under different names and get back in.
We really shouldn't be throwing away valuable members. What we SHOULD do is have a warning system. 3 warnings.
On each warning level, certain site privileges should be removed, such as forums and the like. People who do the wrong thing can still make valuable contributions to the download section.
Once these punishment "levels" are exceeded, then and only then should someone be banned. I think the levels are a greater deterrent than banning.
I fully realise that introducing this system would be a breach of the code of conduct, but that is a very sketchy set of rules that needs ammendment anyway.
If the admins could hear this, maybe we could make tdc a better place.
This was something that was on my "things to do when I can be bothered finishing my new version of DC which may be a while cos this is my final year of uni so it's quite hectic" list. I've never been happy with the current system, but unfortunately that's the only method that is available currently. The new site that I started coding has already coded into it several levels of users. There are 10 levels, you start at level 7, if you are good you get upgraded up to levels 6-4, if you're bad you get demoted to levels 8-10. Different levels carry different privelages, the lowest level doesnt allow a great deal of access (i.e. you can make fewer posts/submissions a day to prevent spamming, etc, and you have less features to use). Levels 1-3 are different levels of administration.
But again, this wont be implemented until I have the time to finish programming the site completely.
Mike
"Now I guess we're... 'Path-E-Tech Management'" -Dilbert
TDC already runs off a "warnings" type of system, according to some of the admins I've chatted with. The levels thingy SC mentions sounds like an interesting play toy, but only as long as you and the admins know how to use it properly in a promote/demote fashion. The PHPBB system has an ability called the "Reputation System", where if it's set on everyone is granted a certain amount of points. Users of the board are able to hit each other with positive reputation and negative reputation, and the higher you go the more abilities you're granted, the lower you go it's just the opposite. The problem was... the system went way overboard. People who made one comment that people didn't like... just one, not two or three, were hit with enough bad reputation that would have caused banning (luckily the system wasn't fully implimented yet). In addition, the more popular people... and people with pictures of attractive ladies in their user pictures or signatures... got loads of positive reputation points. The system ended up being trashed.
JP posted someone else's personal information.
Defenestrator didn't.
Case closed. It doesn't matter if def did instigate it, JP was wrong for doing it, and has been/will be punished for doing so.
I don't mean to be a burden, but I believe that your own rules state:
"Users should not abuse other members. This will result in the post being removed. If abuse continues (regarding the same member or otherwise) your profile will be removed and a permanent ban will be enforced.
Users should not use offensive or profane language. This will result in the post being altered by an administrator, or being removed entirely. In extreme cases, or when this rule is consistently broken, your profile will be removed, and a permanent ban will be enforced at the administrators discretion."
And everytime one of the admins talk about def, he appearantly did nothing wrong. That stuff that he had posted there was kind of abuseive to some people, like JP of course, but I never heard of him ever getting a warning. All i've heard so far was he was "arguing" very hard.
So what if JP posted def's adress or what ever? What are we gonna do, go beat him up? If anything I was under the belief that defenstator was all out into the open and is always out of his house, so therefore, if we were to show up there, it wouldn't accomplish anything, would it?
Posting personal information such as living addresses doesn't mean you risk people going over and "beating said person up". There could be other things involved such as...
Posting people's information is IMO, a good reason to be banned. Yeah, yeah, of course you won't just go there and beat him up, it's about more than just that. People's personal information isn't supposed to be given out like that, gee, would you like to suddenly have a massive unstoppable weekly dumping of junk-mail? It's just downright stupid.
I don't see how JD's banning is defenstrators' fault.
I still don't get why everyone is still so insane over JD's banning. I mean, he's back, isn't he? Only under a diffrent name. Anyway, personal information is...well...personal.
Yeah. Personal.
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
Chamzel: Anyone could do any of that stuff anyways. Plenty of other people have their personal info on the internet anyways, and alot of them don't get all of that.
Lazarus: It's not defenstators fault for getting JP banned. He played a part, but it's ultimatly JP's fault. I'm mearly stating that defenstrator did break the rules. TDC has every right to not enforce their rules, but in my opinion, his case shouldn't be ignored. He also says he doesn't care if anything happens to him, so there should be no problem with doing anthing about it.
if defenestrator did break the rules, are you not supposed to take it up with an admin in a pm, with a link pointing out where he broke the rules. I thourght that was the process by which these things were to be sorted out. this way flame wars are not started and it avoids posts like the one above. that way its better for everyone
You see this admins? defenstrator has said nothing so far that isn't offensive in anyway.
I would pm the admin, but as wished by JP, I am adressing it to the public. Besides, by posting it here, it shows just what kind of person defenstrator is.
One more thing, my name is Gilgamesh, I took the time to say your name right, please say mine right.
The problem with typing is you can't tell the tone of a persons voice. I assure you I am quite chill. Of cource I have no way of knowing if he's flipping out. But of cource I would like to consider it babysitting, but of course I really don't see anything really being done about it.
Your no angel yourself Gilg (nor am I, but thats irrelevent) however you are also not following the correct procedure in making a complaint. You shouldnt need to prove defenstrator's character, leave that to the admins.
That is all.
'oh yeah? he's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?'
I agree, what JP did was wrong. But surely a warning system would be a far better punishment. Banning someone from the forums alone, or suspending them would be much better, and reform people.
Also, I believe Natress to be a hypocrit. Why? Because he spends alot of time in the forums trying to argue his left-wing views to people, but when it comes to actually running something he is Adolf Bloody Hitler.
That said I am middle wing, or you might say, a left wing authoritarian.
What does this have to do with this thread? Bugger all. What does the government of this site have to do with making games? Bugger all. What does JP's crime have to do with his potential game creation ability? Bugger all.
People may post their personal information in order to register to a site or service or generally to give their address out on their own website in the event that there is someone who wants to contact the author or send them something such as a donation, but if you go posting personal information of others without consent on an easily public accessible message board place such as this (or especially the server board for EQ I go to) where as there's a lot of immature or generally naughty people hanging around the shadows you're going to get into some real trouble such as that which I listed. It's against the forum rules on my server's board to post personal information, and I remember that when people found out real life information about people, such as living addresses, people who the forum didn't like to have around you would see lots of "Just signed him up to about a dozen porn spam mails." before the admin took the post with the information down.
CRUSH!!
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
7th May, 2004 at 10:17:01 -
Damien, your point of view is frankly ludicrous. I suppose you would suggest that if a man murders someone, he would merely be given a warning about it and asked not to do it again? Or perhaps allowed two warnings? What JP did was clearly wrong and action has been taken to prevent it happening again.
And HERE WE GO again with the "Adolf Hitler" line. Oh what joy and rapture. Maybe you would like to actually read some history books, or read Mein Kampf, and learn about what Hitler was really like. Then you'd probably think twice about comparing him to anyone running this site. Waltzing around branding anyone you disagree with as "Hitler" is blatantly naive and immature, showing that all you've done is watch a few comic book films and come to the conclusion that decisive action must equate to Nazism. Are you trying to suggest that a left wing politician would never be severe and quick to act?
As for what this has to do with game creation, you are correct in saying that this has nothing to do with it. But your comment "What does the government of this site have to do with making games?" confuses me a little, because last time I checked, Muz, Shab, Circy, Andi and myself are all actively creating games. And again this "crime" has nothing to do with JP's ability, but again, so what?
How dare you call me ridiculous. And even if I were ridiculous, what's wrong with that? Are you being fascist against ridiculous people? Are you, huh? Huh? What're you going to do? Put me in a camp with all the other ridiculous people? And turn me into soap, specially crafted for use on Circy's saggy bits?
And for your information, he did ask. OK, he didn't ask to be called Hitler... but I could tell it was in the subtext. He loves it really.
The main difference between banning someone and killing someone is pretty simple: Banning can be undone, Killing can't. That's all I have to say about it.
What I meant by the hitler remark is simply that Natress has extremely right-wing policies when it comes to governing this site, which is fine, but then he goes round spreading all his left wing views. Perhaps a bit hypocritical?
What I meant by the end of my post is that we shouldn't ban members from using this site because they broke the rules. They may still have great things for the download section, we should ban them from the message board.
n/a
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
7th May, 2004 at 19:31:23 -
please provide a list of my "left wing" statements and "right wing" actions over the past month. because i think what you're saying is nonsense. prove me wrong.
You know what Pete? I couldn't be arsed. Why? Because I don't like you. Why do I keep on asking questions and then answering them? Because, shutup. Anyway Pete, I'll just say something and no I won't bother backing it up, you are a terrible admin.
"Anyway Pete, I'll just say something and no I won't bother backing it up, you are a terrible admin."
That's never the best way to respond in an arguement.
The forum and the required HTML in the comment section are the only bad things about CI's site design... Apart from that it's a great site because the n00bs haven't invaded it yet
Why does everyone attack the admins? We're not the ones who; swear all over the boards, request pirated clickteam software, post peoples information, start flamewars, etc.etc. I mean, it's never, "Hey that's a good admin" it's always "You suck" or something similar. Just thought I'd say something.
Woohoo! Bout time we moved from authorianism to communism. Communism rulez! (at least when it comes to governing websites or other stuff where the 'resources' are easy to spread around )
Anyways, I disagree with the JP ban, partly because personal info doesn't matter and partly because he wasn't warned and partly even more because it's not part of the Rules of Conduct - http://www.create-games.com/rules.asp .
See... nothing there about giving personal info resulting in a ban. At worst, it's copyright infringement or misleading information, but no death penalty on that.
Heck, personal info isn't even important. I give my personal info out on the internet all the time. My first date was with someone I met on the internet. ShadowCaster and whole bunch of online nerds I meet on MSNM know my real name. I know the real names of just about every admin cept Shab and WCB. Heck, I could just look 'em up somewhere to find their addresses and phone numbers.
However, I know not on how to remove bans or I'm pretending not to know... so you guys deal with the fear of being banned for now .
Edited by the Author.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
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Mike 
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