Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
2nd October, 2004 at 23:38:08 -
It is extremely annoying when people upload their games and use installers. It means that I cannont simply delete their game when I am done playing it, I have to go to the add/remove programs unless I want to screw my computer up more. Everyone should use zips more often. Installers should only be used for shareware or really, really, really kick-arse games\apps. I also especially hate that built-in TGF installer.
If there are a lot of files and the game/app is quite large then installers are good. But if it's just the 1 MMF EXE file then it's pretty useless, yeah.
At least they usually remove all the registry entries and files that were created by the software itself. Though this comment doesnt really translate to TGF games since most people wouldnt program that into their installers anyway
Mike
"Now I guess we're... 'Path-E-Tech Management'" -Dilbert
yea but do you know what I hate? non-clickers and computer illiterates who email me asking why my game dosnt work on thier computer. so then i have to guide them to be able to view DLL files and put them in either the games folder of the system folder. try doing that 4 times a day... seriously.
installers are fine where big games are concerned, where files HAVE to be in the right place. including those hidden/system files.
Um, it's not the non-clickers fault, how are they meant to know that the DLL is required? If you use an installer, install the DLL to the same directory as the EXE. If you use a ZIP, just throw in the DLL there too. And you should have a notice on your website saying how to solve any DLL related problems (not that there would be any if you did your DLL installs right).
I agree, I hate installers for simple games, what pisses me off most though is when the game installs and no shortcut is given, so you have to end up finding the actual EXE to run it. This seems to happen most with TGF installers.
Good thimngs about zip's such as winzip isn they install to c:\Unzipped
so instead of having C:\mygame or C:\program files\mygame or c:\program files\joesproductions\mygame everything is kept in ONE directory not scattered across your computer, thats the thing that really pisses me off about installers, you can choose a different directory but it gets quite annoying.
But not everyone uses winzip personally, winzip is the worst program I've ever used, I just use zipfldr.dll and 7-zip. everyone should use 7-zip over zip or rar or ace
As a boy, I wanted to be a train. I didn’t realize this was unusual—that other kids played with trains, not as them.
I never use WInzip either, I just use the default Windows XP zip handling, which treats the zip like a normal folder. It's just a lot quicker that way, and you don't have to extract a lot of things before running them.
I rarely unzip games at all unless they are particularly good and deserve to be put on my hardisk. So installers piss me off to no end. Especially for shitty little games when all the installer is making the game bigger than it needs to be.
MUGGUS
Come and annoy me more at
www.muggus69.tk STOUT ANGER!!!
It saves my private time when i send
some games with installers.
All noobs who try to play my game, isnīt able to do
it, because they donīt have, or they are
not able to extract them.
Well crap forget what i said, altough i shouldnīt
push that reply button now..
As long as you include the necessary DLLs in the zip, don't the programs work anyway?
I far prefer zipped files, even if subdirectories are needed - I can open a ZIP, drag the contents out to my ClickGames folder, and play. With an installer I have to (in the worst case) unzip the file, run the installer, type the directory that I want to install it in (as for some reason the GF installer always wants to put things in my Windows directory) and install from there. It doesn't sound like much, but it's a huge amount more time than using the first method.
If you have all files needed in a zip and you just double click the EXE, it only extracts that file to run it. If the user doesn't have the DLL preinstalled they will get a missing DLL error running it straight from the zip. Hopefully most people have the intelligence to extract it all to a folder.
Aside from the mass-moaning about installers, I have to say an installer is MUCH more convenient for installing extension. What annoys me most is that loads of extension creators zip their extensions in a directory, so you can't just extract it to Programs\Extensions - it would end up in Programs\Extensions\MyObject\ or something and not work. You have either extract to a temporary location or drag and drop out the zip, both of which involve locating the Extensions directory in Windows. Installers can even auto detect MMF's directory so it's just click-click-click and the extension is in the right place. Bah!
Well atleast with installers that I make, it makes them smaller, then even smaller with winzip. Only game I had a problem with that was Diamond END.
Installers work better when you have more then just 1 single file. Because it compresses each file as one, rather then just 1 EXE, which doesnt compress well.
I learned early on that nobody likes installers, it even annoys me now to install a game and search for the exe like asparagus trevor mentioned.
Even with shortcuts and stuff it makes my start list bigger and takes more time than neccesary.
I have no problem with installers, I actually perfer them more often, they are alot more organized, expecially when you have a computer as organized as mine. When it comes to zips, they have a minor chance of currupted (EXPECIALLY ON DAILUP, & I'm not the only person who had this problem when I had dailup, so dont go there!) Then there is the fact that installers, which may not be extremly useful for click games, are able to trigger patches to install or not, by checking if the main installer installed in the past. Installers are also make it alot easyer to uninstall games for people who are computer litterit like 99.9% of all my friends. Zip's should be used for things like maybe extra extention files, minor programs, or things like extra dll files. Now I can see where your comming from, because more then 70% of the people at DC make games that shouldnt even use zip's, thats how deserving they are, but again, there are games here at DC like Enternal Daughter that would be accessable in & installer. Not not to go around saying my games are extremly good, & above the rest, but my newer game's are good for installers. Like PPIO & Diamond END.
I must ask why everyone has trouble uninstalling a game that includes an install file? I merely select "uninstall" and my PC does the rest. Nice and simple no? While I do think if your going to use an installer, your game should be top notch I must point out the obvious. One would argue that professional PC games CAN have install programs because they are for lack of a better word professionally made, but then again how many times have you picked up a PC title made by a "big name developer" that sucked more ass than bush in a debate? My point, although possible a bit garbled, is that just like when buying a "professional" game you should do your home work before hand. Read some reviews, check out the authors website, read about it in the forums. Then if you still think the game will be cool then download it, and if it takes a few seconds more of your time...oh well.
But professional games, even if they suck, usually have many data files and folders and files that need to be installed in the registry, whereas most of the time, Klik games are just one or two files that really don't need installing.
It's an on-and-off thing. I won't use an installer if the game is something like "KILLIGN DETH GUY!!!!1111".
I REALLY hate it when people use installers for short little demos. But some of this anti-installer business is ridiculous - some larger games should have installers, and they DO help people who aren't Klikkers play the game.
I don't like having to unzip whole paths and folders and crap, especially because any DECENT archival programs cost money.
If wishes were fishes then we'd all smell like ladies' underwear.
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
23rd October, 2004 at 10:24:36 -
My game was like 2.5 mb big and it got cropped to 250 kb with Install Creator!
For packaging, an installer would be great, but I agree that it's REALLY annoying for a small game or a bad game.
I like being able to play a game in the start menu... and if I hate it, I can uninstall it from the same menu!
Still, let's face it... most games are one file. Installers have their place in the click world, though.
WinACE has great compression - how does Tarball Bzipped 2 compare with it?
If wishes were fishes then we'd all smell like ladies' underwear.
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
25th October, 2004 at 03:11:10 -
I once downloaded a 400 kb installer and when I installed it, it became 400 MB! The program didn't work either (naturally).
And how can you Bzip a file? And is it better than Gzipped files?
7zip has the best compression so far, you should try that
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
In order of worst to best, I made sure the files to archive contained similar amounts of multiple data types, it had a few CCA's, EXE's, JPG's, BMP'S, MID's, and TXT's. So Install Creator is actually one of the best and convenient ways to compress it, as most people don't have 7-zip, Stuffit, or WinRAR. Sorry WinaCE is excluded, but I don't have a compressor for that.
Edit: Hey, just as aladdin systems claims, SitX is one of the best compression formats
Edited by the Author.
As a boy, I wanted to be a train. I didn’t realize this was unusual—that other kids played with trains, not as them.
compression varies depending on both the program you are using and the file being compressed, 100 midi files can be zipped to 25k but an mp3 will be about2% smaller.
I don't know if files inside a click game folder vary like this.
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Mike 
personally, winzip is the worst program I've ever used, I just use zipfldr.dll and 7-zip. everyone should use 7-zip over zip or rar or ace
Edited by the Author.
