I'd class myself as an atheist, simply due to insubstantial evidence that some 'higher' governing entity exists. The only evidence of 'God' is within a book of fables written thousands of years ago which has most likely been innacurately translated...
However, I'm quite interested in the ancient, more 'obscure' religions, I enjoy reading about the beliefs of cultures such as the Mayans, Incans and Ancient Egyptians
What about yourself? I could ask you on MSN right now but OH WELL!
*Clicks 'Reply ->'*
By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named night,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of space
Out of time.
I'm Christian, but I'm not 100% hell bent over it, I am very open minded about religion, my belief is sort of a blend between Science and Religion, almost like, what isn't answered by Scientific laws, has a chance of being answered by religion, and until any one religion is proven right (which will never happen in my life time, if ever) then none of them are.
God left us with such little detail as to what to believe, and a man-written book doesn't mean much in my eyes, I don't think any particular religion is completely logical. They all lack details and a large majority of religion, especially Christian, is based on creating fear to control hard core believers, by creating such places as hell, the ultimate punishment.
@Novasoft: I would describe myself as an agnostic, but that's a bit of a blanket term, and as yet I haven't pinned down a suitable descriptor for myself. I too think that there is insubstantial evidence of God, but I also believe that to be an Atheist you must also prove that there is no God, which again is impossible to do (IMO anyway). So I reside in between.
@Brandon: Yeah, I commend your views, you obviously don't take everything on face value like some folk do. I'd like to see where your belief in God is based on.
Omg this is gonna go so far and most probably turn into a giant debate lol. Im supposedly Christian >.>
Actually, this sounds dodgey, but I have prayed to god before when I wanted somethings to go my way and they have done
Well put BrandonC, not many Christians are *willing to admit the fact that science comes into things* somewhere along the line. Also, very few Christians are able to accept that the teachings of Christianity can be somewhat contradictory.
BrandonC:
"a large majority of religion, especially Christian, is based on creating fear to control hard core believers, by creating such places as hell, the ultimate punishment."
It's always been my opinion that the main reason for somebody dedicating themselves completely to Christianity comes from the fact that they fear Death and/or the unknowningness surrounding the 'afterlife'. Of course, there may be other fundamental reasons, let me know!
I find it hard to understand how so many people can live their lives and base their lifestyles on the writings of a book. Where is the motivation in doing so and what is the purpose?
* Supposedly
Edited by the Author.
By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named night,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of space
Out of time.
I've always found that the most logical, though sort of disturbing, answer as to what happens after death is that you basically blank out. Nothing else happens, you just fade out of existence. Though this is highly debatable, considering the idea that to this day, the ability of conscious (knowing you exist), is still a mystery to scientists. With this said, it's very easy, and very logical to say that your conscious is in short, your soul, and is what travels to an after life.
There is no logical reason, side from the natural wonder of what happens after death, that explains why almost every single religion to date, has had some sort of story of an afterlife. So naturally, something in our mind is telling us that one exists, even if it's not specific as to explain what it's really like.
LOL i dont have a religion but once i heard the weirdest thing on religions.. one of the boys at school.. some nerd sais his religion is jediism .. like the starwas thinggy... and that religion really actualy exist!! thats the weirdest thing mean can ppl be nerdy enaugh to believe in that!!
Strange... because they know for sure it's all made up.
I don't really know the word for it, but i don't believe in any one thing.
We don't know what the truth is so i'm not going to believe in anything (meaning i disbelieve other things)
I try to keep an open mind about everything.
I suppose I'm agnostic, leaning towards Catholicism. though I'm not even sure of that. I only say that as my mums Polish side of the family are Catholics and my girlfriends family is too. Just sort of seems natural. Though I believe in science too, even the most religious people I know are split between the 2.
Never go into a church though, at least not for that Sunday jazz.
I'd like to believe when I die Im able to go to a place like Heaven. Simply because if nothing happened when I died it would just suck on so many levels.
I suppose I'm an athiest. My belief is that life only exists in memories. Once you die, you simply cease to exist. You have no reccolection of your own existence since you are not alive to remember it, and there is nowhere to go because heaven is just a myth written by man to give purpose and direction to our lives. Instead, you can only attain immortality through your name, your offspring, and your life's work. The key to eternal life isn't in going to church every Sunday, but rather in changing the world, raising a child, writing a novel, achieving glory, or just being remembered as a great guy who touched a lot of people. Somewhere along the line though you have to leave a mark that says "I was here. I had a purpose." Without that, your life was for nothing. It never happened.
i'm a Circyist. In circyism, you achieve immortality by going to a lab and putting your brain inside a giant robot that never dies.
But seriously speaking, I kind of believe the same than kirby smith. Cuz life starts when you are born. Some religious fanatic can come and say the soul is inserted into the child's body at the moment it pops into a tiny embrion, but i think it starts when you are a concient being.
I think being alive is the same as being concient beings. When you die, your brain doesnt move anymore, so pretty much nothing is going on. I don't discard the posibility of your selfawareness still wander off space without the limitations of the body, expanding into the void, like sauce that falls onto a circy's belly and makes a mess of everything...
That's where the argument lies, Dogzer. When does the child become conscious? babies kick and do stuff inside the womb, is that conscious? what's your earliest memory, did you only begin life at that exact moment, what if you lose that memory in the future?
I have restrained myself this fare but I must point out one very week point in Dogzers argument.
"I think being alive is the same as being concient beings."
Okay, are you saying that people in comas are not alive? Are you saying that if I get knocked out and do not have consciousness I'm dead? Many people have gone through states of unconscious (sickness, coma...etc.) and still remained very much alive! So, I would have some serious objections to your definition.
"I suppose I'm agnostic, leaning towards Catholicism.
Is that where you don't believe in anything, yet still feel guilty about it?
It's interesting about the consciousness thing. My first memory is my third birthday (I got a toy steering wheel). I know nothing of before then, apart from secondary sources (mum and dad). Now, if I don't have any recollection of the first three years of my life, how can I be sure that I lived them? If life is indeed lived through memories, that means I was "born" on my third birthday, and have lived in sporadic moments until now.
"I think being alive is the same as being concient beings."
This can be argued to and fro, but nobody could ever be sure of this IMO. Exactly the same as the God situation. If neither side of the argument can be proved, neither side can be disproved. And, in all honesty, does it even matter? What is inherently unknowable is a useless thing to try to suss out.
I could be wrong (although my "belief" does admit that).
Well, in seeking truth you probably want to go with what has the most evidence...If Christianity really is true then its really going to be bad for those who don't believe it. I really think its of upmost importance in you life to at least try to find the truth.
I'm actually Christian (Greek Orthodox), but I don't take the Bible literally. As Brandon said, Science can explain many things, and I think that Science ties into religion.
Several born-agains preach that you go to hell if you don't follow Christianity. I disagree. It all has to do with how good of a person you are.
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
'Officially' I am Christian - like I was Christened or baptised or whatever you call it, when I was a baby
But I don't personally believe in religion - in fact I don't really believe in much.. I just think you're born, you live and then you die. Although it would be nice to go to heaven and all that when you die
Human life is no more meaningful than the life of any other living creature. Remove wealth and possessions and we are left with the 'raw', emotional basics.
That is why you should strive towards living a life of compassion.
So far, the most logical religion I've found is Bhuddism. To me, almost everything I've read of the writings is very noble, sensible and realistic.
"If a person does not harm any living being…
and does not kill or cause others to kill-
that person is a true spiritual practitioner."
"...All monks who live purely and all Bodhisattvas always refrain even from walking on grass; how can they agree to uproot it? How then can those who practise great Compassion feed on the flesh and blood of living beings?..."
"Let him not destroy, or cause to be destroyed, any life at all, nor sanction the acts of those who do so. Let him refrain from even hurting any creature, both those that are strong and those that tremble in the world."
Edited by the Author.
By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named night,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of space
Out of time.
Vegetarianism is supposedly optional, though it appears the majority of 'followers' seem to gradually opt for a vegetarian lifestyle to coincide with the teachings of mercy and peace.
Vegetarianism was/is encouraged but not enforced. If Buddhists were offered food donations containing meat, many would accept, as the meat was seen as 'pure' / leftover due to the fact that the animal was not directly slaughtered for them.
Anyway, let's get back on topic!
Keeping with the theme of Buddhism here, what do you guys think of this man:
Buddhist monk Thich Quang Duc who killed himself via self immolation in protest against the Vietnam war
I can't express the respect I harbour for a man willing to kill himself in such a gruesome way for a cause he truly (and rightfully) believed to be Just. To express no emotion or movement at all whilst the body is practically melting is impossible for me to comprehend. The sheer mind over matter and level headedness leads me to the following conclusions:
1. Buddhist meditation works
2. Thic Quang Duc was one extremely tough mofo (with all respects)
Edited by the Author.
By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named night,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of space
Out of time.
"Human life is no more meaningful than the life of any other living creature."
But what is the definition of life? The scientific definition includes such things as carrots, moss, viruses and mushrooms. Or do you prefer to offer your definitions, which undoubtedly mean fluffy rabbits and piglets? TBH, I don't know that anybody else is alive apart from me, so as long as I don't eat myself I am fine.
Yes, I'm working on my spelling... I often misplace letters in words and often don't notice, even if I double check what I've written. I think it may have something to do with dyslexia
As taught in Buddhism: Vegetables and plants are alive, but unlike animals, they are not sentinent, which I agree with.
By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named night,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of space
Out of time.
I see (though I've never read it) the bible, or those rules that tie in with it, as a sort of good guide to life.
Like "don't sleep around", with all this shitty aids and STI business going around it makes sense. the old washing feet they used to do, great way to keep the floor clean. little things like that.
But then things like circumcision in the modern day doesn't have much point.
"Theravada commentaries explain the Buddha was making distinction between direct destruction of life and eating of already dead meat. Moreover, they point out that any act of consumption would involve proxy killing, including the farming of crops, so the idea that meat eating amounted to proxy killing while eating vegetables does not is ignorance."
@Jimmi: Oh yeah, condemning homosexuality, disavowing contraception, etc, sounds like a great guide to life.
@Novasoft: Sikhisms view - "Sikhism argues that the soul can possibly undergo 84 million incarnations as various forms of life before ultimately becoming human. These life forms could be a rock, vegetation or animal. Sikhism does not see a difference between mineral, vegetation and animal. The only distinction made is that between these (mineral, vegetation and animal), and human."
I'm not preaching 'nor attempting to argue I'm just trying to convey my distorted beliefs in which I pick and choose aspects of certain religions which appeal to me and attempt to apply them to myself!
Jimmi - lol, u said circumcision... I never understood the purpose of that...
*GOOGLES CIRCUMCISION*
By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named night,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of space
Out of time.
"My point is though that there is no evidence, and no way of getting evidence. So why put your faith in something that can't be proved?"
Okay back to this point. What are you talking about, why isn't there evidence? I see it all around me man? That point is rather self refuting too. You at least have evidence that there is no evidence. You assumption that there is no evidence is backed by some sort of logical reasoning proving that there is evidence! Get what I'm saying?(I'm playing word games if you think about it, it makes sense.)
"So why put your faith in something that can't be proved?"
We put our faith in many things that can't be proved. Even your statement above can't be proved but you believe in it! Can you prove that your parents love you? No but you still believe they do right? Because of the evidence of giving you food, caring for you when you were a little baby and such...Just because you cant prove it 100% that they love you, the evidence of their actions makes it a very possible thing to believe! (This is a bad example if they beat you and stuff)
@Hishnak: I don't have evidence that there is no evidence. But then again, how can I have evidence that I don't have evidence that there is no evidence?
"What are you talking about, why isn't there evidence? I see it all around me man?"
You are thinking in different terms to me there. I'd like you to look up Rene Descartes somewhere, and his philosophy goes as such:
1. If I am dreaming/deceived, then my beliefs are not true.
2. I don't know whether I am dreaming/deceived.
3. So, I don't know whether my beliefs are true.
And as I said before "I could be wrong (although my "belief" does admit that)" - granted this seems to contradict itself, but it is logically impossible not to be in this situation. Hence, maybe the best option is not to believe in anything, as it will only lead to you looking stupid at the end.
"@Hishnak: I don't have evidence that there is no evidence."
Is that evidence? Heh...
How do you know your just not decieved about your beliefs about Descartes? If your admitting that you can't know anything(which is knowing something) Then its contradictory!
"maybe the best option is not to believe in anything"
Do you believe that?
all I'm trying to do is show that your philosohpy can't be sustained because it is contradictory.
Pfff "very weak points in dogzers argument" Let me explain you... I think being clinicaly alive is not really "living", your body fluids still flow and you even breathe, but it's not diferent from the river that flows or the wind that caresses circy's hair.
What you said is just a stupid terminology disagreement, you could come to me with a dictionary and tell me the WORD "living" means this or that, but you wont find the answers in a book writen by mortal men. You have to see life with your own perspective.. and only then you'll see how much I rock
Better hate religion as it today, because it lost it's true values of humanity, respect, freedom of mind & speach also as kindship to others.
No wonder why you hate this. To be seriously.
Goal of being Jewish is being at first and all, friendly.
No friendliness, no religion... If it tells you do something other than be friendly to others and keep with it no matter what, it is a crude lie...
All you, atheist people often do much better than many Jews, pastafarian, muslim or chirstians who live by stricting social rules... If your'e warm and you care to others, as you love yourself, it's enough.
Many atheist I saw, are actually belivers that don't know they are. If you smile, you belive.
Okay, if you really belive this then why are you talking to me! Let me see life through my own perspective! That statement in itself is contradictory because your telling other poeple how to live!
@Hishnak: Descartes views are based on logic. They make sense. The only thing Descartes is sure about is that "I exist" (I think, therefore I am). It is not contradictory. It's not a belief about Descartes - it is fact. Whether I am the only person to exist is another matter entirely.
"Do you believe that?"
No, not necessarily.
You can carry on turning people's arguments on their heads with little justification, but it doesn't work Hishnak.
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
"The very fact that I can turn your arguments that you can turn my arguments on their head shows there's problems with them."
Actually, I have yet to see someone turn what I've said on me. While I've show that youre form of "you can't know anything" is riddled with contradicions. Because the very fact that "you can't know anything" is knowing something!
So from beginning Buddhist and Chinese religion aren't religions but philosophy moves like Platon's or Sokrates but created by them.. Buddhist by Budda and this Chinesee religion by Confucius. So they really don't believe in any religion but in philosophy move and their creators don't want to be Gods or sth but what happens we know.. And little history if you mentioned Christians Jews and Muslims you have to also mention e.g. protestants and Russian orthodox.. Because Jews were first people which believe in one God after Jesus Christ come from Jews born Christian religion after about 400-500 years from Christians and Jews religious born Muslim after next few hundred years borns Russian Orthodox and after next few hundred first Protestans religious... And some religious like Hindu are truly pagan religious but their are to today.. And I'm.. hmm we can say Roman-Catholic but some persons says that I'm protestant or even heretic.. but It's their problem.. Sorry for my language but English isn't my first language I'm from Poland...
Lol, hishnak, i never told you what YOU should think, you were the one that disregarded what i said because the word "life" ment something else to you.
All I did is tell you that since no one knows what's beyond life, no one can't define the word "life" or "god", so you shouldnt say what i think of life were really "weak arguments" just because you use the word life in a diferent way. Sounds to me that you just want to sound smart by contradicting my point of view...
I am an atheist. I see no reason to prove that "God" doesn't exist. Since most religious people doesn't have to prove that he exist, they just have to strongly believe that he exists. I too strongly believe, that he doesn't.
The hardcore religious people who strictly follow their religion are just looking for somethng to base their life on, a reason to live. The american religious preachers, however, are really annoying (the ones that say things like "praise the lord" all the time) or the ones that claim faith is a healer, and 'heal' people are also quite stupid. But so are the people that go to things like that.
Also, religion causes war. It is altogether pointless, but many social groups around the world couldn't function without it. There would still be lots of fighting, but for a different reason.
I, myself, have been christened. However, I couldn't give a shit about religion as it's boring. And the stories in the bible are VERY crap. So, I'm atheist. I don't believe there was/is/ever will be a 'God', nor anybody who can do things like Jesus was supposed to do, unless evolution favours us and mutates our brains in such a way that we can send out psychokinetic waves. But there's very little chance that will ever happen, because humans suck.
I'm a Muslim, supposed to be enemies of Christians and Jews, but I don't really see it that way. Seems like they've forgot that Muslims, Christians, and Jews supposedly worship the same God, what with everything starting in Jerusalem, Middle East, etc.. but I'd rather not get into the details.
Religious wars are pointless, but like every other war out there, they're just there to show how devoted the warriors are, their bravery, their honor, their strength.. and most of all, it's an excuse to beat someone up and take their money.
Anyway, a lot of the points atheists point out only seem to apply to certain religions. Islam has plenty of logical and scientific evidence to be taken literally (ie. no twisty rhymes and stuff), though I don't believe a lot of the more contradictory stuff the clerics make up.
There's no real evidence pointing out that God exist, but neither is there any real evidence pointing out that it doesn't. After all, the Big Bang theory shows that the universe has a start, but was there some Greater Being out there who started it all? And if God is an all powerful being, I think he'd care about us more like a father would care for a child. In other words, none of that crap about us being tortured for years and our eyes being gouged out just for looking at extramaritial nudity.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
After all, the Big Bang theory shows that the universe has a start, but was there some Greater Being out there who started it all? http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CI/CI200.html Claim CI200:
Every event has a cause. The universe itself had a beginning, so it must have had a first cause, which must have been a creator God.
Source:
Craig, W. L., 1994. Reasonable Faith: Christian truth and apologetics, Crossway Books, Wheaton IL.
Morris, Henry M., 1974. Scientific Creationism, Green Forest, AR: Master Books, pp. 19-20.
Response:
1. The assumption that every event has a cause, although common in our experience, is not necessarily universal. The apparent lack of cause for some events, such as radioactive decay, suggests that there might be exceptions. There are also hypotheses, such as alternate dimensions of time or an eternally oscillating universe, that allow a universe without a first cause.
2. By definition, a cause comes before an event. If time began with the universe, "before" does not even apply to it, and it is logically impossible that the universe be caused.
3. This claim raises the question of what caused God. If, as some claim, God does not need a cause, then by the same reasoning, neither does the universe.
Lukas Hägg - Polluted Genius that "strongly believe that he exists" is called faith..
Muz I said the same Muslims Jews Christians believe in one god so in theory we should be one religion.. and don't fight and hate each other.. It's just silly...
Muz I said the same Muslims Jews Christians believe in one god so in theory we should be one religion.. and don't fight and hate each other.. It's just silly...
No, cause jews and muslims cut the skin off little boy's peepees!
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
Although I beleive that the bible has good moral teachings, I don't see any reason to worship it's characters. I'm athiest, I grew up in a christian family and decided I was an athiest last year.
Radix:
If God has "always existed", then there is no cause. But the universe has not always existed, therefore there's a chance that a God created it. Whatever the truth, it's probably beyond what we can prove, so the best thing to do is to have faith, believe in whatever you decide to. That's why it's called faith... because you chose to believe in something despite evidence proving otherwise.
Either way, religion is what's kept me from sex, alcohol, and stealing 1 GB RAM when I get the chance. 'Thinking that God will do things for me' really wipes out my stress level and the fact that it (seems to) work actually strengthens my faith. So, whether or not God really exists, doing what my religion tells me to do is actually a good thing .
Tradition is bad in a lot of ways. It's a way to make a religion 'more spiritual' by adding rituals, etc, and after a few hundred years, a lot of those rituals tend to have nothing at all to do with the religion.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
If God has "always existed", then there is no cause.
What's good for the mythical sky fairy is good for the gander.
But the universe has not always existed, therefore there's a chance that a God created it.
No. Causality cannot exist without time. The temporal dimension occured along with the spatial ones. The article I posted already covered this in point (2).
Edited by the Author.
n/a
Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
4th September, 2006 at 05:12:16 -
I believe in a thing called love, just listen to the rhythm of my heart.
Im a Satanist,I believe self-empowerment is better than useless prayers.
The Nazarene (Jesus) couldent do much more than healing others,while i can heal myself(Don't have much experience with healing myself,though),and even learn other abilities (seeing one's aura,inflicting pain,etc.)
I believe Father Satan has really guided me for the months i have dedicated myself to Him,opposed to God.I am Christened/baptised myself,but became Atheist on the age of 6/7,and became Satanist this March.
"but became Atheist on the age of 6/7,and became Satanist this March."
You can't be atheist and satanist. If you don't believe in God, you don't believe in his opposite. I don't know if you're joking, but you really do sound like a fuckin tool. Who doesn't know nothing.
Im a Satanist,I believe self-empowerment is better than useless prayers.
The Nazarene (Jesus) couldent do much more than healing others,while i can heal myself(Don't have much experience with healing myself,though),and even learn other abilities (seeing one's aura,inflicting pain,etc.)
I believe Father Satan has really guided me for the months i have dedicated myself to Him,opposed to God.I am Christened/baptised myself,but became Atheist on the age of 6/7,and became Satanist this March.
Ok, so you are one of those 14 year olds who calls themselves satanists cause they think it's cool...
You can't be atheist and satanist. If you don't believe in God, you don't believe in his opposite. I don't know if you're joking, but you really do sound like a fuckin tool. Who doesn't know nothing.
Actually, you can be Satanist and Atheist. Satanists does not worship Satan. Certain satanists believe Satan exists, but not as an opposite of God (who they do not believe in), rather as a force of nature. Others just use him as a symbol of power, even though they don't believe in it.
A satanist does not worship the devil, he worships himself
Edited by the Author.
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
No. Causality cannot exist without time. The temporal dimension occured along with the spatial ones. The article I posted already covered this in point (2).
Ah, but the "cause cannot exist without time" is simple a hypothesis brought up my simple humans. We assume that cause cannot exist without time, but that's because we cannot imagine anything before time, and thus we assume that nothing exists before time does. It's a logical assumption, but, may or may not be true.
Perhaps if, as stated in Islam, our universe lies within another universe, then there is an already existing universe before the Big Bang, which means that time has already existed in that one, allowing for our creation to have a cause.
Methaphorically, if we decide to make another universe in ours... say, with an accurate computer game simulating the universe, we'd be the ones who created the universe, but to the simulated computer game people, they can't possibly imagine us for their universe is so different from ours. They are simply bits and bytes of electronic pulses, while we are matter... and despite how much we explain the concept of physical matter, atoms, etc.. they'll still lack the understanding for they were created from a bunch of bits. While the center of our universe is at well... wherever the Big Bang started from, the center, focal point, and the very thing that runs theirs is the CPU. To them, logically, the universe (and their God) cannot be created/generated without a CPU, but to us, the CPU was simply a piece of hardware that's easily created.
So, point is, if as my religion states, there are other other universes outside ours, then it's possible that our laws of time might not apply to the creation of the universe. But I don't want to offend any of you atheists... so, this may or may not be true... and it's up to us to believe whichever side.
Damn ye, you've just made me go on another Muz-style rambling post.
Don't pick on the satanist, it's his choice what to believe in. But what I believe is that God created Satan, therefore, God is a lot more powerful than Satan. It's just that Satan seems powerful coz he meddles in things directly. So, I'd rather worship God over Satan & myself .
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Ah, but the "cause cannot exist without time" is simple a hypothesis brought up my simple humans.
Sorry Muz, but you're an idiot. The concept of causality is dependant on the existence of time. It's not a 'hypothesis', it's the definition of the term.
So, point is, if as my religion states, there are other other universes outside ours, then it's possible that our laws of time might not apply to the creation of the universe.
String theory suggests the creation of the universe as a brane collision, which is sidestepping the problem of causality by proposing multiple temporal dimensions. If that's the case, then we have a purely physical model that does not require the existence of a diety. Because it's superfluous, we can discard the diety as per parsimony.
But even in this case, where does the brane manifold (or if you like, other universes) come from? If the origin of our universe is explained by the existence of another universe, where did that come from? At some point, the first dimension of time had to occur, and prior to that there cannot have been a causation.
it's up to us to believe whichever side
This reeks of intellectial dishonesty.
I don't know if someone has said this already, but I haven't bothered to read all the posts so here it goes:
Religions and beliefs are terms made up by the human being as a "thing" for them to get support and confort from, in the begining of human civilization it's self. People sometimes don't have the power to change things at will so they had to have some sort of "resort" to help them get it.
Each one of us believes in what he/she wants. and I do not blame or make fun of any of those who belive in the strangest things. Even if they believe in a religion they made themselves, but which they feel good at practicing, and makes them have a better life, then that's what it's all about.
when christians ask: Please god let my sister live from that operation. or something of the sort, their just AUTO securing themselves by using the religious method.
I myself believe only on myself, i have no religion, and I'm down straight to earth. If someone is having an serious operation theres a percentage that sais she's gonna get better and another percentage that she's gonna die. nothing more.
I'd like to continue talking and talking about the topic, but there you go, even like this people are likely not to read it so.
comment
take care guys
Profile edited as it messed the layout of the site up.
I believe it is my duty to pick on "Satanists" (I disgust at the term).
"Satanists does not worship Satan"
Excuse me for my obvious ignorance.
"Certain satanists believe Satan exists, but not as an opposite of God (who they do not believe in), rather as a force of nature."
This sentence does not make any sense. By logic, Satan has to be the opposite of something. If not God, then at least nature itself. In this sense, Mother Nature would take the role of "God" (the real, the natural) and Satan would take the role of the opposite (the supernatural).
Edit:
@Fox: Your beliefs do not necessarily have to bring comfort, for example those with nihilistic views. But you're right about believing in yourself, because the only thing you can be certain of is that you exist in some form.
Not only confort, but security that there's a mightier form of power up above existing just to make your day better.
They have better lifes because they believe they are safe cuz HE is goign to help them.
but what is funny is to ask them questions for which they have no answers and that makes them feel uncomfortable. like for example:
if GOD is so mighty, then why does he let millions of people die from starving? and why war in som places and not in others? and, do you think there's a diferent god for each planet? then why aren't the other planets populated as well?
lol
but oh well this all plays part in a part of the great apple that we are all in.
take care
Profile edited as it messed the layout of the site up.
Radix:
LOL, I'm surprised you read that. I just wrote a long, long, long post... but recalling our pointless PC-console debate last time, I decided it'd be better to let it die . One thing about religious debates is that both sides will always bring up unproven theories, or at least acceptable proof against popular theories, and it leads to nothing.
Better save the fighting for something useful, like discussing whether cloning, hybrid creatures are against God's will... which IMHO, isn't true. If God really didn't want us not to make clones of ourselves, it simply wouldn't be possible. A cloned child has a soul, just like a twin would.
"if GOD is so mighty, then why does he let millions of people die from starving? and why war in som places and not in others?"
> Easy answer. Because death is not bad for the believers. If God is so mighty, heaven and hell exist, and those people who died starving will live happily ever in heaven . Those who refused to feed them will suffer in hell.
Or alternatively, you could just say that God doesn't really care. After all, if your children kept begging you for food, would you just give the lazy bums food until they ask for more, or would you toss them in heaven where they wouldn't have to worry about food again? After all, Adam was banished from the Garden of Eden for being rebellious... now his grandkids come praying for food?
See.. religion solves everything. Nobody's depressed because everyone gets what they deserve.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
LOL, I'm surprised you read that.
Actually I skipped the whole paragraph about the matrix or whatever. If you want to concede that's fine with me.
"if GOD is so mighty, then why does he let millions of people die from starving? and why war in som places and not in others?"
> Easy answer. Because death is not bad for the believers. If God is so mighty, heaven and hell exist, and those people who died starving will live happily ever in heaven . Those who refused to feed them will suffer in hell.
Or alternatively, you could just say that God doesn't really care.
Unfortunately for those explanations, most abrahamic dogma define the faggot as omnibenevolent. I suggest you read up on the Problem of Evil: http://www.iep.utm.edu/e/evil-log.htm
""but became Atheist on the age of 6/7,and became Satanist this March."
You can't be atheist and satanist. If you don't believe in God, you don't believe in his opposite. I don't know if you're joking, but you really do sound like a fuckin tool. Who doesn't know nothing. "
dude,late reply,but im not atheist now -_-',of couser i dropped atheism after becoming satanist ( duh)
By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named night,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of space
Out of time.
Watched a great programme on TV the other day - "The Beginner's Guide to Hinduism". Turns out that it's pretty much "love yourself and love everybody else" with colourful characters. It's a pretty good philosophy (not a religion as people say), and I was startled by how forgiving it was. And, as it turns out, Hindus do not care whether you believe in God or not - they generally don't go around trying to convert people, or even push forward a case for believing in all the Gods and suchlike. Dharmic philosophy (Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism) seems to me to be much more refined and logical than that Abrahamic crap that unfortunately the whole world seems to subscribe to.
Didn't really go for all that animal God crap, or the goat murdering, but I suppose that was a primal sense that has become tradition (thankfully it is dying out now).
I believe in God.
There's loads of proofs of the existence of Jesus Christ, his family, miracles, and even apparitions. But even if this wasn't true, I would believe in God, anyway.
By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named night,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of space
Out of time.
Im athiest. THERE ARE NO GODS the sooner you ppl and all the freaking muslims figure this out the world will be a better place! AND EVERYONE WHO SAYS THEY NEED A PURPOSE GO KILL YOURSELVES RIGHT NOW (There are better things in life than praying)
If you think you look stronger just because you say what's your shitty friends say, well you're a perfect retard.
By the way, being atheist at the age of 6, whoa, you make important decisions soon hey !
If you feel good serving who's gonna burn you, great, good luck
Don't expect a VIP room for "satanists" in hell.
"There's loads of proofs of the existence of Jesus Christ, his family, miracles, and even apparitions. But even if this wasn't true, I would believe in God, anyway."
If the bible is not proof. It's a book written by men.
I'm pretty sure that people who worship Satan, might just get that VIP room, because they aren't making life a living Heaven for Satan.. who knows. Christians don't want you do believe that though.
PS: As Andy said, the bible is merely a man made book, based on what people saw. Well the best way to explain half the stuff in the bible would be to bring those people into the 21st century without letting them know that they are in the future, and lets see how many things they blame on god here. "Magic glowing box with moving picture... THANK GOD!"
I'm not saying God doesn't exist, but I do have to admit in saying that half of the stuff written in the bible has to be merely unexplained occurrences.
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
11th September, 2006 at 20:42:18 -
The bible is true! The bible says so.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Deleted User
11th September, 2006 at 22:41:43 -
I think Buhddism, and LaVeyan Satanism have the best way of thinking, because they don't believe in a god, they believe in symbols which represent what they believe in.
Deleted User
11th September, 2006 at 22:46:25 -
Oh yeah, and just to clarify, Satanists don't 'worship' Satan, or even think that he exists.
I wasn't talking about the bible, I was talking about miracles, things the medicine couldn't never find out what actually happened. I do believe in God, however I think 80 % of the people related to Christianism are a band of retards who care more about their bank account other than caring about poor people .
But what really piss me off is all that cynic people who go to church just to reserve their sit on heaven.
I don't think the bible is fake, they proved a lot of things like the way of living of Christ, and everyone can read it at it's own way. Just a few people don't believe at 100% cuz they don't give a fuck about it.
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
14th September, 2006 at 13:53:30 -
Going to church doesn't higer your chances of going to heaven, especially since there will always be bad people who still go to the church. It's about the person who would go to heaven (if you believe in it), and not about whether people go to the church or not.
Of course, there are also serious people who like to think in churches. Plenty. But I don't think the cynic people would count there.
The Bible isn't fake, but it certainly hasn't been written by a god. I think it has been written by someone with pretty great wisdom at the time, or it had been written by a group of people anonymously to give people hope or a reason to live, at least.
Who knows, the bible might have been written to fit the circumstances 2000 years ago...
Old member (~2004-2007).
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
14th September, 2006 at 14:18:27 -
If I'm not mistaken it was? I thought it was, at least. Sorry if I'm wrong.
Still, the ages after it look like peolpe still needed support from something. Believe might have come out best.
The current state of our largely Abrahamic world tells you all you need to know about the Bible/Torah/Qu'ran.
I don't understand people who say "Oh well it gives people a reason to live", as if life needs a reason in the first place. People wouldn't randomly commit acts of homicide and kill theirselves if there weren't such a thing as a Bible. Humanity exists, end of story.
Here's the problem: a lot of Christians need to be beaten over the head a few times. Most of them are self-righteous, arrogant bastards who think that they're right and everyone else is going to hell. They think that giving to the poor and helping the needy will get them into heaven.
I'm Christian (as I stated, Greek Orthodox). A great quote from Einstine:
"Science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind."
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
To me religion is what weak people hang on to so they don't fall apart. Because they're weak they think they can't do things on their own, they hang onto a "idle" or "god" to say..you can, when it's really all in your head. But that's just my opinion. Hope I don't insult too many people on here..lol I love you all, specially Phizzy!
Those who wrote the Bible and The brothers Grimm have something in common, they both write amazing FABLES! Yes, that's all the Bible is... A Book of fairy tales and fables.
The Bible is so fucking old that it's probably been inaccurately translated anyway.
By a route obscure and lonely,
Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named night,
On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly
From an ultimate dim Thule
From a wild clime that lieth, sublime,
Out of space
Out of time.
The bible haven't been written in one day. It's a compilation of old texts and books THAT ARE BEING READED AND ADDED TO THE BIBLE SINCE THEY'VE BEEN DISCOVERED.
Sorry, but you really think millions and millions of people since 2000 years ago have been wasting their time praying, building churches, and loads of other stuff, just because they found a few papers on the ground saying "God is rulling, do whatever He say and shut the fuck up or just spread the word".
Thankfully, the Bible's age has helped translations remain quite accurate. Because it's so old, there are tons of different copies of the same texts, with different ages. This means you can compare multiple copies of the same texts from different dates and iron out any discrepancies.
One of the bigger obstacles to Bible understanding (or any other book for that matter) is in the translation. A common example is that in Greek, you have four words for love, whereas in English you have one. A decent Bible should have footnotes explaining which word is used.
Also, discoveries about ancient Greek and (especially) Hebrew are being made all the time, which people aren't always aware of. For example, within the last 50 to 100 years, a slight gramatical pointer was found in the paragraph in Genesis about how "on the seventh day, God rested".
We now know that the word 'rested' is actually continuous, and should be more accurately rendered "has been resting". In other words, the seventh 'day' hasn't finished yet. This means the previous 6 'days' of creation would have been thousands, maybe millions of years long each. It basically squishes the argument that the earth was made in just 144 hours.
Basically, I believe in understanding what you believe. It annoys me when people say they believe something but have no proof or reason for it. If you can't back it up, then in my opinion it's not your belief. Does that make sense?
It can kind of be the same with religious people as well.
I've met soooo many people (especially the elderly!) who emphatically say that Evolution is wrong, but they don't actually know anything about the theory.
I think it's just part of human nature, maybe, or laziness.
Personally, I don't think organised religion as a whole is going to last much longer.
The Hindus believe in an Oscillating universe, one theory about the nature of the universe supported by many modern scientists. Hinduism is one of the few(the onlty one I know of) that thinks in larger time-scales. The Shiva Naharaja depicts the god Shiva doing his cosmic dance and creating the universe. It illustrates the balance of creation/destruction and symbolizes the ignorance of dichotomy.
Hindus believe that the universe is completely destroyed and re-created over and over again every few billion(i can't recall exactly) years. Also note that the drum represents creation of the universe. Doesn't that sound a bit like the big-bang theory? It just blows my mind that the ancients actually though about the universe(and time) in such large scales. Don't Christians believe the world(universe?) is only, like, a few thousand years old?
"I agree with you, actually.
A lot of people claim to be open minded, and yet when you talk about religion, they laugh at you.
Not very open-minded at all."
Lazarus, I personaly don't bash religion unless people shove it on others people's faces, or start wars like we are seeing around the world. Or when an idiot pope says ignorant things about muslins just to make the situation worse (no I am not muslin) but what about the pope? He's the closest mind jerk on earth. With that said, it's hard to respect religious people who follow and listen to retards like the pope. Unfortunatly but true, the current events in the world have stained religion's views for many people.
To me, to each his own...but religion does affect the lives of many, many people and that's what I dislike it so much.
George Pell is not the Pope. Although I'm not religious, I think the Pope (Benedict and John Paul) is one of the most misunderstood figures in Christianity. If you read about recent encyclicals, you'll find that Catholicism is, oddly, much more progressive than a lot of evangelical denominations.
The current Pope, Benedict, is a perfect clown, but JP was a very good man, the perfect example of how someone should be.
There's lots of religions, but the Hinduism is the harder to believe in. There's almost how much hindus as hindu gods.
The buddhism, although it's not an actual religion, it's pretty interesting.
Was listening to that the other day - "Did I see you in a limousine, flinging out the fish as you walk on the mean".
@Johnny: Hinduism is not a religion either, and you don't have to believe in the Hindu deities to be a good Hindu. In fact, you don't have to *believe* in anything, other than the goodness of humanity and yourself.
I believe in my toilet, it takes all the crap in my life away from me...nearly everytime. Sometimes it floods a little and puts all the crap on the floor. So I have to clean my own crap up.
There is probably a metaphor lurking in there somewhere...
thinking is like pong, it's easy, but you miss sometimes.
I'm christian orthodox(greek) but I'm a very open minded person.
I believe that a creator of all things exists and that he's the one to set in motion the whole universe/matter and there is something afterlife,maybe not necessarily heaven/hell-wannabe scenario but there is something.
But what was the reason of creating something?What is the meaning of life?Why do we exist,why does the universe/matter exists?What is the point of everything?
We will probably never know,at least in this life and what you should do(at least is what I do) is neither deny nor blindly accept anything/everything like a sheep as many do.You should do your own research,read/hear what other people say,atheists and theists alike,come to your own conclusions and believe what your heart tells you.Do the right things(define right things?well you be the judge of it) in life,be good to others and wise with your decisions and listen to what your consiousness/sub-consiousness tells you(if you are going to do something,you will know if its good or bad etc...).
Blah,blah,blah this is really a very open and huge topic,so let me stop here.
haven`t been on these forums for ages, but i cant leave a discussion like this without leaving an opinion.
i am 100% atheist-naturalist. meaning i think the whole idea of god(s) is ridiculous,
and about soul/free will, thats not true. your brain is physical, if you take drugs or damage your brain, you will think differently. if you die you will stop thinking, thats it. and it can be scientifically proven. (messure brain activity before and after death f.ex)
if you have different opinions i am glad to hear it, but please be logical =
dont use words such as god or soul without explaining what it means. is god and heaven in another dimension? do you get a free clone there when you die? and at what part in your life are you cloned from?
I'm religious, but I certainly agree with your view of the soul.
If the soul can see, how come people with glaucoma lose their sight? In fact, suppose you're God for a moment: Why go to all the bother of creating something as complex as the retina if a person's soul is already able to see.
I was reading a book the other day which was trying to explain how cells are made up of tiny molecular 'machines' which do different functions. One of them, in the retina, changes its molecular structure when hit by a photon. The result? It now reacts to other chemicals in an entirely different way. Then, once that reaction has been registered, another reaction takes place which undoes the effect of the first reaction, returning everything to normal.
So yeah, that clinches the soul thing for me. No one would go to that much trouble to build a working biological camera if the 'soul' already had one built in.
The really odd thing is that the Bible actually agrees, LOL! Talking about death, it says:
"His spirit (literally 'breath') goes out, he goes back to his ground. In that day, his thoughts do perish"
Hmm, yes. So they got the idea of an immortal soul from where exactly?
That's supposed to be a photo of the virgin Mary. Apparently, this apparition appeared on-and-off for a period of about 2 years floating above a church in Zeitoun, Cairo. It's well documented, just Wiki it.
Odd thing about that pic is that Mary has a halo (pagan). What's more, Mary worship is in direct conflict with a lot of stuff in the Bible.
So if it is Mary, she can't read.
Interestingly, for those who are kinda religious and wonder about miracles and stuff, have a look at Exodus 7:8-12, and then 2 Corinthians 11:14,15.
Nowhere does the Bible say that God is the only one who can perform miracles. If a miracle happens, and it's wearing a pagan halo, over a church that has idols in it, then there are only two possibilities:
Either someone has a really cool projector, or the church has a demon problem.
its a intriguing story Johnny, shame it have not hapend since HD television.
i dont understand why life is supposed to be more meaningfull if a religion is right? you rather wanna be some brick in a surrealistic game than a real human being?
This is what happens when you talk about something you don't know.
First: If you ever visited a church, you would see some funny pictures with Jesus and Mary wearing a "pagan halo".
Second: Yeah, in 1968 there was loads of projectors and PCs, you know.
Third: "The sick and blind are said to have been cured, and many people converted to Christianity as a result." Something in this phrase tells me that the Devil don't have much to do with this.
Forth: Read the Bible carefully, and maybe you'd understand anything about it.
Actually, the halo thing isn't pagan. All Greek Orthodox icons have halos...but then again, Catholics view icons as Idle Worship.
As for the Bible...here's the problem:
Everyone interprets it differently. You'll get nutty fundies who take everything literally, the do-nothings who use Christianity as a marketing ploy, and then those who just try to live the faith.
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
The halos are in the paintings because they were already used by those cultures (Greeks, Romans, etc) before they converted to Christianity. When they converted, the halo (along with a cartload of other things such as the easter bunny) came with them.
The problem with saying I should read the Bible carefully is that I do.
Did you know that Jesus said 'do not call anyone your father on earth, for only God is your father'... yet priests are given names like 'father', 'abbot', 'pope', etc - all of which mean father.
The Bible is clearly against using idols in worship, yet the churches are full of them. In fact, the very idea of worshiping Mary is against the concept of worshipping 'Only the True God'.
Up until recently, orthodox churches were telling berieved mothers that their children would be eternally lost in Limbo if they died before being baptised. That's not in the Bible at all, and frankly it's obscene.
I know only too well the things that demons can do. If those people said they saw a glowing figure, they probably did. But it was in support of a whole bunch of concepts that the Bible condemns.
Ok, time for Agnostic Teapot to defend the poor little Christians (being an ex-catholic). No Christian denominations worship Mary, the closest is Catholics who practice Marian devotion but not worship. Catholics are not against Icons, and again, no Christian denomination worships them. People use Icons as inspiration, and worship through them.
Again, I'm not a Christian, I used to be. But I think if you're going to go around criticising what people believe, you should at least get it right.
The eyes and brain are for the physical body to see and think. Obviously you lose all that when you die but the soul (if it exists) would not work in the same way as the human body, so why would it require these to function?
when you dream you 'see' don't you? without your eyes. Ok you use your brain to create images, but who says that the soul simply doesn't exist.
There is no real evidence to suggest it doesn't.
Actually, the halo thing isn't pagan.
The halo is actually the solar disk, incorporated along with a fuckload of deus sol invictus stuff when the late roman empire decided it would be a lot easier to control people with christianity.
No Christian denominations worship Mary, the closest is Catholics who practice Marian devotion but not worship
A lot of people pray to Mary, along with a whole bunch of other saints for some reason, and even three different gods who are supposedly the same guy. If you want to call yourself a monotheistic religion despite this you have to fall back on semantics like that, I guess.
Alright I give up.
I'm tired.
It's hard to explain something I can't even understand right, but the truth is the world isn't only hate and war, it's also love, peace, charity, etc...
The day you'll understand this, you'll understand my point.
Either you want it or not, God exists. And it's the only one I would ever stand on my knees for.
n/a
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
12th October, 2006 at 23:12:23 -
This reminds me of Christmas.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
I don't think the difference between worshipping something and worshipping through or being devoted to something is merely semantics. Nor do I think the Trinity counts as idoletry. I still don't believe a word of it.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit = one God, not three.
On the subject of several gods...
Mormons worship demi-Gods; they say that God created the world, but then a host of other gods God created made everything else. They also believe that in 'The End of Time' all Mormons will be Gods. T_T
Jehovah's Witnessess believe that Saint Michael is Jesus, and they prey to several demi-Gods. They think that only 1,000 people (I'm guessing they'll be Jehovah's) will get to Heaven, while everyone else is thrown into oblivion.
On an intresting side note, Catholics are always attacked for their clergy-boy-lovers...but did you know, a Jehovah 'Elder' raped a boy so bad he loss control of his bowels? (I'm not kidding. I'll post the link to the article sometime).
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
J/W's believe that Michael the Archangel is the angelic name for Jesus (he's given lots of names in the Bible). And no, they absolutely do not pray to demi-gods, it's only to Jehovah (the hebrew name for God. It's sometimes pronounced 'Yahweh' by other religions). They won't even pray to Jesus.
Also, the number's 144,000 who go to heaven as what the Bible refers to as 'firstfruits' (roughly the first 144,000 people to become christians)- so no, most of them aren't Jehovah's Witnesses. Most of them would have been people who became Christians early on, such as Jesus' apostles, etc.
The other billions of humans who've ever lived aren't 'thrown into oblivion'. The J/W belief is that man was made to live on Earth (hence why so few are expected to go to heaven, it's just not what we were designed for).
According to the J/W's, God's ultimate purpose is a world without pain and suffering. Armageddon is simply a war between God and man, to remove the people and governments that stand in the way of this. So Armageddon's not actually bad for mankind in general.
Once it's over, the world is gradually reverted to the way it was before everything went wrong. The Bible says Jesus would 'break up the works of the Devil', and that's what this process is about - people who died (not the evil ones) are resurrected to a human body that looks and feels like their old one, with a few corrections where necessary.
As for the Elder story, I don't doubt that it's true. Fortunately, things like this are incredibly rare in comparison with other religions. To their credit, Witnesses publish a lot of information for their children to protect them from abuse.
I'm not, I actually have reasons for believing everything I do.
But I honestly do appreciate that this may (hehe, *may*) seem odd to people. You can't do justice to something like this in a forum post, there's just too much in it.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit = one God, not three.
Okay, but why? How can a father and a son be the same guy? Why would jesus say god, father, lord, rather than just 'me, lol'? Why wouldn't you just call them all the same thing?
Spoiler: you would. It's another Council of Nicaea retcon. The scripture itself with the exception of one well-known later addition refers to the father and son only as separate entities (and the Spirit as... uh, yeah).
Aww Dines man, I see your just the same as the rest.
Philosophically speaking, your only proof of these things is a book, which may or may not have lost meaning over the countless translations. And no, it doesn't sound "odd" that you believe in this, just downright stupid.
"The J/W belief is that man was made to live on Earth (hence why so few are expected to go to heaven..."
If that was the case Dines, why would anybody go to heaven at all? If it's not what we were designed for?
The Bible is truly a good book. A lot of what it says is just, compassionate stuff. It's just the people who take to much out of it that's wrong with the world, and those that take every word as given.
Funnily enough, I was speaking to Jon about the Bible. There was this case where he was having an argument on a forum, and he wanted to ban this guy and win the argument. I said that he must "turn the other cheek", being a Christian and all, and he replied "yeah but that doesn't mean I have to be a doormat." I'll leave you to come to your own conclusions about Christianity at large.
The heaven thing: no angel knows what it's like to have been a 'fallen' human being like we all are. We're a far cry from the way humans were intended to be. Angels don't forget things, they don't know what it's like to get tired, to be ill, to die. This sampling of 144,000 people contains individuals who've been through all of that, which makes them perfect assistants to Jesus in caring for us whilst we still bear some scars from the pre-armageddon world.
"which may or may not have lost meaning over the countless translations."
I don't want this to turn into an argument, but that's actually not in line with the evidence (at least, from the years of research I've done).
The Dead Sea scrolls have actually shown that - over hundreds of years - Bible copies were almost unaltered. Major differences only started to appear quite late, by which time there were so many more accurate copies that it was easy to compare and spot errors (if 4 texts say one phrase and 1 says another, you logically go with the other 3). So there's little damage been done due to basic copying.
As for translation, they've not actually been translated through thousands of languages as people imagine. Hebrew -> Aramaic -> Greek, that's it, and there are still Hebrew and Aramaic versions to compare with the Greek. It's not a dire situation.
The more research I've personally done, the more evidence actually points in the Bible's favour.
The translations are altered Dines. You here about it all the time, like the Greek word for "day" might have been confused for "age" - resulting in the seven "days" to create Earth. Someone may have mentioned that earlier on in this topic actually. And if something as big as this can be mistranslated on the very first page, I don't give the rest of the book much chance.
The translations aren't 'altered'. There are sometimes differences, but as I said before, there are so many older copies that these can easily be ironed out.
The Hebrew word for 'day' was 'Yohm', and Greek was 'Hemera'. Both can mean actual days OR vague periods of time (much like the English word for 'day' has both literal and figurative uses). It's not like we don't know the ancient hebrew word, or have lots of examples of its use.
What's more, there are other scriptures, including a few hints in Genesis itself, to show that the days aren't 24-hours long. For example, the Bible seems to suggest that we're still in the 7th day now.
Greek and Hebrew actually match each other quite well, since they're very expressive and romantic languages.
Modern languages have more dificulties in rendering Hebrew, like English (we have 1 word for love, the Greeks had 4), so in that situation the person just needs to get a Bible with footnotes and apendices. Absolutely NEVER one of those easy-read ones, they're dreadful.
You have every right to come to your own conclusions about the Bible, but do not call me 'stupid' just because research has led me to disagree with you. Can this thread die now?
191 / 9999 * 7 + 191 * 7
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
15th October, 2006 at 13:30:46 -
*pokes Dines* Why do you get to kill the thread...?
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
I'm agnostic since I know that things had to start SOMEWHERE. However, I lean more towards the "watchmaker" camp in that I think god (I don't capitalize it on purpose) set up a system and left it. I believe that there's either an afterlife or rebirth, since I think consciousness is far to strong to simply disappear. How can you not exist? I mean, you dream when you're asleep (and if you don't, then you just wake up immediately), which makes it pretty hard to find an example of what it's like to not exist. Either you go to some sort of heaven, you're reborn, or you still exist on the Earth detached from your body.
The English vocabulary is the largest in the world. That is why it's clearly the best poetic language ever.
One word for love? What about affection, fondness, devotion, adoration... and no, I didn't just look in a thesaurus, although I'm certain there'd be tonnes more words for it in there too. Not to mention the countless loanwords for love borrowed from the Romance language themselves.
So don't give me that bullshit that English isn't expressive or romantic. It's as expressive and as romantic as you'd ever need.
And I do feel that I have every right to call you stupid. Your "research" is clearly flawed, yet you still believe in it blindly.
I don't believe in god since YouTube doesn't work on my computer. Actually, I do believe he exists 'cause he MASSACRED my connection to the newest internet craze. I WANT TO BE A CONFORMIST BEEPBOOPBEEPBIP-P-P YOUR ORDERS MASTER.
Weird topic for a games forum! Don't know if any games have been created as a result of it? At the risk of being over philosophical has anyone wondered if any of our existance and what surrounds us is actually "real" in the first place?!
to start press any key ...... where's the ANY KEY??
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
Registered 04/09/2004
Points 7998
6th November, 2006 at 19:12:49 -
"Weird topic for a games forum!"
The Daily Click ::. Forums ::. Misc Chat ::. What do you believe in?
Hmm, I would have expected someone to get what I said...
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