Originally Posted by LIJI. Why don't they triple the punishment for murderers, rapists and thefts named Muhammad then?
They're comparing their religious figures to criminals.
And also to Ben.
This is a religion that, in court, requires 2 female witnesses in lieu of 1 male witness. I'm not even going to go on about how backwards they are. Don't make them sound like a noble race when their religion is as oppressive as this. The excuse of Sharia Law being "it prevents the crime" doesn't exactly work when the crimes are still being committed.
Woman gets raped in a car. The rapers are punished and so is the woman by 40-60 lashes (I forget the exact number).
They're broken. Taking values and beliefs from the dark ages and applying them in a modern world. Even Catholicism has gone with the times to some degree.
Originally Posted by Ben It's easy for us to sit here and talk about how stupid it is that religion is taken so seriously, so much so that there are those who called for the death of this school teacher. I would suggest that this school teacher should have thought it through a little more thoroughly, considering more or less anybody who has the slightest inkling of Islam knows that Muhammad is held in reverence.
Some things you just can't see coming. I'm fairly sure this woman had lived in sudan for some time and was well aware of their culture and laws.
But 'culture' is no excuse for the madness that goes on in whatever country you're currently talking about.
Of course it's madnesss. I never defended their actions, nor do I agree that what they did was "right". All I was trying to convey is it's arrogant to call a society backwards and foolish when we know so little about it. I would argue in many ways our own western societies have overstepped their limits on more than one occasion. We too are guilty of torture, rape and murder. We too promote revenge. I'm not saying we're on the same path, but we certainly haven't been very exemplary either. I would agree however that our general recognition of say gender and racial rights are somewhat more forward.
Don't get me wrong, I'll be the first to condemn the calls for this woman's death. I just got a little irked at the direction this conversation was going when it came to religion in general and thought I should say something anyhow.
I've come up with all sorts of amazing new ideas... I just can't afford to make them.
You're getting your wires crossed. Christianity promotes its followers to "turn the other cheek" and all that. Don't get religion mixed up with your nearest urban culture.
And don't assume we know nothing about their religion.
Not all Muslims hold the same stupid, backwards, bigoted views. Just the ones that you hear the most from on the news. Sharia law is certainly one of the most barbaric ways to govern a society, but being a Muslim does not make one into someone who wants to bring about Sharia law, just as being a Christian does not preclude one from believing in evolution.
Any religion will have its share of whackjobs, lunatic fringe, and fanatic. Sudan is a rat sphincter of a country to begin with, so you can bet it will have a higher concentration of said whackjobs. But there are good, respectful, rational people who are Muslims. They believe in their faith, but they are quick to condemn terrorists, fundamentalists, and those who exploit the religion as an excuse for violence. I would say they are the true Muslims, and the people in charge of Sudan, terrorist groups, and the radical mosques preaching hatred are false Muslims.
Now, I've stuck up for Islam, but now it's time that I put the hypocrites among their number down as well:
Mohammed is a very common boy's name in Arab culture, and the teacher didn't even pick the name herself. Instead, it was recommended and voted for by the Muslim children. Why don't those children get punished? After all, they chose the name. They voted on it. They selected it. All the teacher was doing was recognizing democracy.
Let's face it: the people who claim to be Muslims in the world but ignore the "love" and "compassion" and "kindness" parts of the religion are the biggest, most spoiled crybabies in the world, and we, the rest of the world, ourselves every time they throw a temper tantrum because they control the world's oil supply, have guns, and are psychotic.
If wishes were fishes then we'd all smell like ladies' underwear.
Originally Posted by Bo Fu Not all Muslims hold the same stupid, backwards, bigoted views. Just the ones that you hear the most from on the news. Sharia law is certainly one of the most barbaric ways to govern a society, but being a Muslim does not make one into someone who wants to bring about Sharia law, just as being a Christian does not preclude one from believing in evolution.
There was a poll from a year or 2 ago saying ~80% of British Muslims want Sharia Law in England.
Originally Posted by Guru Rinpoche I think it's hard for US citizens to understand--people can burn the US flag here, and although it bothers many people, there's a great number of people who don't really care. I don't think we have the same feeling of national unity as other countries, because of our personal history and general apathy towards everything.
I don't think we have the same feeling of national unity as other countries-
oh come!
you know that this is just not true. you are the fucking united states of america. if you guys dont have national unity which country does?
I like to think that, for the most part, the problem behind this is the people, not the religion they claim to follow.
For instance, in the UK, we're fairly liberal. Pretty much anything goes, so long as it's not a blatant perversion like child abuse. And life is considered important by the majority, to the extent that we only really have one death penalty now in peace time, and that's high treason.
As a result, the churches over here will generally have female priests and same-sex-marriages, regardless of what the Bible actually says on the subject.
Conversely, in a culture where life is cheap, and people can have their hand cut off for stealing something, religions are likely to receive the same kind of stretch-to-fit treatment, but in the opposite direction.
For me, this kinda suggests that the religions themselves are not responsible. Al Quaida are not blowing people up because of Islam, they're blowing people up because they're psychotic murderous gits. They're just using Islam as a lame excuse.
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