joNickArt- First of all, it's spelled emperor, not "imperor"
After that, I lost you. It seems you are trying to pass off your questions as facts. He spent his time altering Christianity to appeal to the Pagans, so the Christians and pagans would stop warring.
In 361 AD, The Julian became the next emperor. He tried to stop the spread of Christianity. He didn’t convert them, I don't know where you get your incorrect information.
Also, winning the battle isn’t the point, he did win the battle, but used it as an excuse to switch the current religion to Christianity.
/Edit: Philipe, I will get back to you tomorrow.
Edited by the Author.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
Ok, its nice to know that I will soon be schooled. Whatever. But I just read some of the sites, and I know this will sound kinda like a stupid thing to bring up, but you're gonna have to realize that those sites are not any different than what JP is saying. In OTHER words, that means that these don't really have any factual evidence against christianity. For all we know, these are just random claims that are only potentially possible. If two sites state the same thing, why would that make it any more true? If you ask two christains "Was Jesus the son of God", they're probably gonna say "yes". Two sources don't make one thing true. But that's not my point, that's just pointing something out so no one tries to use that as proof later. My point is the exact same thing as with JP: How do we know their claims are true, and how do we know thier evidence is reliable? Maybe these are just a bunch of rumors, maybe it isn't, but the point is we need to know. Simply put, how do we know this isn't a bunch of bull-plop? Just because they say its recorded in text doesn't make it neccisarily so, let alone the fact itself be true. Also, please don't point out the fact that the Bible would be considered text, we know that, and if the mere fact it said it made everything it said true, we would probably use that as proof. But of course that's not true.
Hey, what do you know, I'm no longer trying to be hasty about this forum. Oh well, I've lost the will to care about it anyways.
Edit: Yes, I suck with metaphors, and you probably do too, it's just that you probably never tried. JerkWad hippocrites.
Edited by the Author, who probably is better looking than you are.
Edited by the Author.
Games currently in "the works":
Moonrise
My Fantasy (dieing dream)
Shadowed Sunset (this one will be cool)
Dragon Riders (Newer, better animated, cooler, and less gradient version!)
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www.phil-con.com baby!
Sorry Muz, but people don't 'become' an athiest for any reason other than they don't believe in a God(s) or a Diety(ies). That's what athiest means. You can't sit down one day and think, "I'm not going to believe in God anymore because I want to have premarital sex". If you truly believe in something, it's a lot harder than that to stop believing, it's a very long and gradual process of questioning and self-interpretation.
The thing is, it goes through people's heads over and over again. They go all, "What? My religion won't let me get drunk? But getting drunk is cool!" and they search for more evidence either disproving the fact that getting drunk is against religion OR they could just actively attempt to disbelieve in this religion thing. Either way, some athiests tend to lean towards the end, and as religion goes, the more buddies you have who support your beliefs, the stronger your belief. And thus, it's a religion spreading all by itself.
Personally, I'm wondering whether God also worships something of his own. It's like we're little thingies in a computer program in God's computer. And maybe God's also a little thingy in some computer program in a computer of some Mega-God. It's a disturbing thought.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I've heard the computer game interpretation before. Not that there is a higher god in my opinion though. Just think about it. It's like Sim City 3000 but with more options. He can send UFOs, meteors, robotic monsters, tornados, and even pick us up and drop us to our bloody doom! In fact, I'll bet that there is a little pointer flying around in the sky right now!
Another one of my favorite jokes of this relavance is a Far Side joke. God is a chef who baked the Earth for 20 minutes. He added some liberals, conservatives, enviormentalists, animals, plagues, and just to spice it up a notch, jerks.
Of course, there are infinite jokes in this matter, so I won't continue. Dang, I'm gonna go read me some Far Side! (Runs out of the room)
Games currently in "the works":
Moonrise
My Fantasy (dieing dream)
Shadowed Sunset (this one will be cool)
Dragon Riders (Newer, better animated, cooler, and less gradient version!)
....................
www.phil-con.com baby!
I still prefer the "Life is a Computer Game" metaphor. God does everything randomly, kinda like those DMs do in AD&D, for those of you AD&D players. Horoscope, feng shui, etc, is just a way to determine what the dice rolls mean.
And further more, what of that theory that everything in the world is random? Almost everything calculated in physics & chemistry are just what would happen out of probability. Air/water resistance is little more than figuring out which molecules would hit the thing on average and how strongly. It's still random, but an average of what would happen. Same goes for other stuff like radioactive half-lives, energy conversion, refraction, etc.
That way, miracles can happen. Water turning into wine? Nothing more than a whole bunch of yeast getting into the right place at the right time and speed. Army of frogs? What happens when snakes are unable to reproduce. Walking on water? Proper water resistance and air resistance with the right amount of 'luck' (or maybe the water was actually ice). Sticks turning into snakes? Drugs injected into the snake, making it stiff (or maybe mass hallucinations).
Thus, all those counter-religion theories have been contrasted. That is, the ones about Nostradamus being uber-accurate and feng shui being so effective, and supposedly 'false teachings'.
Personally, I think the weird stuff in this world, like the Big Bang theory being proven and the wierd properties of water at low tempratures is pretty much my basis in believing that there's a higher power in this world. It's not about miracles being performed; Discovery Channel's already convinced me that plenty of biblical stories are just coincidence. The real proof is the likelihood of such coincidences happening (dice rolls controlled by a Greater Power) and the fact that those prophets knew about it.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I just meant that Constantine didn't make christianity to the national religion, and then I asked why he didn't IF he really made those things you said.
Muz: Not meaning to offend, but you speak of randomness, and that includes probability. I understand the INCREDIBLY small odds of these things happening, but what about ALL of them happening in Christianity? Have you heard of the saying "the simplest explanation is probably the right one"? In other words, that is the most unlikely thing to EVER happen, thereby, the other explanations are probably going to be right rather than your explanation. Plus, it sounds ridiculous. It's a lot more sensical to a lot of people for there to be a god instead of all that luck. Then what are the odds of Christianity being right? Thats a question that arguements like this are trying to conclude.
Edit: I forgot the bottom of what you said. I misinterpret stuff, so sorry about anything stupid i said. But wheter or not I was contradicting you, the above content is still true
Edited by the Author.
Games currently in "the works":
Moonrise
My Fantasy (dieing dream)
Shadowed Sunset (this one will be cool)
Dragon Riders (Newer, better animated, cooler, and less gradient version!)
....................
www.phil-con.com baby!
That way, miracles can happen. Water turning into wine? Nothing more than a whole bunch of yeast getting into the right place at the right time and speed. Army of frogs? What happens when snakes are unable to reproduce. Walking on water? Proper water resistance and air resistance with the right amount of 'luck' (or maybe the water was actually ice). Sticks turning into snakes? Drugs injected into the snake, making it stiff (or maybe mass hallucinations)."
However, they're are no records indicating that snakes stopped reproducing (and there are still snakes), and since Moses threw down the snakes and then became sticks, that meant that he couldn't inject drugs into them.
And Philipe, JP is saying those things because they're fact (or he takes them as facts). If you were to follow your philosophy, you shouldn't believe anything at all, because someone could say differently and then it couldn't be true.
To me, I think life is a test... God gives us things little by little and you have to go with it. Thats why life isn't fair...
Whats at the end of the universe?
Whats the reason for living?
If you have a special person you can't stop thinking about, put this in your signature.
Hey, MY PHILIOSOPHY IS FLAWLESS YOU IGNORANT FOOL!! No, really, is it more sensical to you to have a god do these things or have it all a huge and ludicrously complicated scam? Of course, your way works too. Whatever
Edited by the Author.
Games currently in "the works":
Moonrise
My Fantasy (dieing dream)
Shadowed Sunset (this one will be cool)
Dragon Riders (Newer, better animated, cooler, and less gradient version!)
....................
www.phil-con.com baby!
Philippe: First off, everything in the bible was taken or borrowed from some other religion. Have you ever seen a drawing of god? He has long white hair and a long white beard. Who does that remind you of? The image of god himself was taken from Zeus!
What does it matter? It matters because the Bible is the foundation for Christianity, it matters because you should know the origin of your faith.
Next: "In OTHER words, that means that these don't really have any factual evidence against Christianity."
What does factual mean to you? Does it mean tangible evidence that includes names, dates, and places? The difference between my evidence and yours is that my facts are checkable, and can be traced back in any history book.
If you ask two Christians if Jesus was the son of god, and they say yes, you ask them how they know. They say, "it says it in the bible", and who wrote the bible? Moses, King David, King Solomon, Agur, Lemuel, Isaiah, Hosea, Amos, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Zephaniah, Habakkuk, Joel, Jeremiah, Obadiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Ezra, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi wrote the bible, along with other anonymous people. The bible didn't fall out of the goddamned sky. It wasn't written by God. No one has any first hand information from the guy.
Why do you believe in God? Because you were raised to. Your mother, your father, your minister, all shaped your faith. Same thing if your dad likes the 49ers, your going to root for them.
When you were little, you weren’t given pamphlets from all of the religions and asked which one you wanted to join, it was forced.
"Just because they say its recorded in text doesn't make it necessarily so, let alone the fact itself be true."
So what? Dinosaurs aren’t real? The evidence is tangible and real, you are trying to ignore the evidence. Of course having something written down doesn't make it true, what makes it true is if it really happened, and it all did.
"You can't sit down one day and think, "I'm not going to believe in God anymore because I want to have premarital sex"
That is a reason to believe in god! If you go and confess your sins and donate a large sum to the church, all is forgiven!
Muz: "That way, miracles can happen. Water turning into wine? Nothing more than a whole bunch of yeast getting into the right place at the right time and speed. Army of frogs? What happens when snakes are unable to reproduce. Walking on water? Proper water resistance and air resistance with the right amount of 'luck' (or maybe the water was actually ice). Sticks turning into snakes? Drugs injected into the snake, making it stiff (or maybe mass hallucinations). "
There is a simpler explanation than god, or mass hallucinations, it's called The Council of Nicaea. It is there where they embellished Jesus’ life.
joNickArt- He did make Christianity the official religion.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
Well, yeah, just an excuse some religionists may use to explain the miracles in whatever epic book there is on them.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
That's not the point I was trying to make with the 2 christians thing. I was just mentioning that bcuz I didn't want to hear the question, "If the Constantine thing isn't right, then why do multiple sites claim it to be true?", when two Christians could be asked a similar question and respond in the way, thereby making you a hippocrite for saying a stupid question like that. I ALWAYS get a question like that whenever i argue over religion, sorry of you misunderstood .
On the Zues thing: Was there EVER a picture in the bible with god looking like Zues? I understand what you're trying to say though, so point taken.
I probably used Factual wrong, so thanks for pointing that out. But you know what I'm trying to say here, so why would that matter?
Speaking of "Why would that matter?", I'm asking what evidence is there that would defeat Christianity itself, not the common symbols of the bible that were misinterpreted. Let me ask you a question- Is the bible a picture book? Does it mention that all angels have halos? Did it have a picture of Mary Nursing Jesus, let alone mention that (actually, it probably did mention something about nursing )? Of course, isn't it common for mothers to nurse?
About the Gospels: The Bible was not thrown from heaven, and that is right. I have supported that fact. This is just a comment to go ahead and contradict some claims of the Gospels being wrong. The gospel was WRITTEN BY SINNERS, who screw up just like all humans do. If they mention the sayings of Jesus differently, its bcuz it was they either translted the wording badly (which applies to alot of Psalms and Proverbs)from Greek to English, or they simply wrote the basics of what Jesus was saying (and if that is true, then it would be understandable that they misinterpreted his lesson, perhaps?).
Note: I only mentioned the above to attempt defeating a common arguement that I hear WAY too much (the arguement of the Bible contradicting itself, which I think everyone has at least heard of).
About forgiveness: If you believe that Jesus is the son of God, then you will be forgiven and will go to heaven, granted that you repent. Of course, the Catholic belief is that the Pope grants the right to go to heaven (if I'm not mistaken ).
Donate a lot to the church? If a church taught that, that would be hilarious!
They know that the life of Jesus existed, they used carbon-dating on the various records (including the Bible). The Bible could not have been pieced together from scratch, it had to have had a begining before they changed it (that is, if they did change it to begin with ).
You know what would be nice? If they could go back to the grounds where Jesus died and look for evidence of an earthquake the time he did die (mentioned in the Gospels, I think John if not anything else).
That's all i feel like saying for now. Besides, the above content is probably boring and long anyways ... oh well
Games currently in "the works":
Moonrise
My Fantasy (dieing dream)
Shadowed Sunset (this one will be cool)
Dragon Riders (Newer, better animated, cooler, and less gradient version!)
....................
www.phil-con.com baby!
Oh, and about the whole confession & sin forgiving thing... being an atheist is a quick, cheap, and simple shortcut to it. How can you sin when there is no God? Perhaps that's what people what to believe... thus, like religion, atheism also springs from human hope and fear.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
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Edited by the Author.
... oh well