Of course, i could get into the concept of Good and Evil, right? There can't be Good and Evil without any higher power, bcuz good and evil is determined by God's/ the Gods' will. Also, "sin" technically means "an act against the will of God" as far as Christianity concerns it. I know what you mean though, no offense . I wonder how many Christians, like me (as in me being a Christian, not being offended ), are offended by "thus, like religion, atheism also springs from human hope and fear". That is only a theory as for Christianity. Then again, one could argue that Christianity is only a theory, but i would think not
For those of you choosing between Atheism or Christianity (or at least looking for good points to bring up), there is a book by C.S. Lewis I believe that you should read. Someone say the name for me, i forget what it's called . You might know what I'm talking about anyways.
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Actually, Philipe, Good and Evil is determined by the society you grow up in, not God.
Also, there have been times where the Church told people that donating to the church would clear them of their sins.
And let's not even begin looking at the differences in the Easter story in the four gospels. How come the most important story in Christianity doesn't have the same people in each of the gospels?
Really? Is it determined by your social society? If it were determined my the will of the whole society, then why would the whole society consistantly defeat thier will? Porno is evil, and if that was determined by the society and not god, then the society would not look at porno. But of course, the society DOES look at porno, and a lot of it too. The society calls it evil, but they didn't determine it, because what man deems right would be the act of man's will, and evil would be anything that opposes it.
By what your presuming, "right" would be what everyone wants, and "wrong" would be what everyone hates, but the way you would have it, it wouldn't make sense! Thousands of people LOVE to look at porno, but they know its wrong. Why would they defy their own will if their will was what's "right"? Good and Evil was determined by God, not society's will. Don't mix interpretaion of good and evil with
determination of good and evil.
Wow, this is gonna bring up an arguement (mostly bcuz what I just said is kinda hard to explain).
Also, I am aware that several temples in the ancient times preached the whole money thing, and some churches still do. I said it was funny! Jesus forced several people out of the temple with a whip of chords bcuz they were giving money "to be saved and forgiven" Doesn't that strike you as the least bit humorous?
Edited by the Author.
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JP: I forgot to mention, we know dinosaurs probably existed. We have their freaking bones! We DON'T have more than words that your arguement is true. Ugh, I need to type less...
Edit: Is it me, or do me and JP take up more than %50 of this forum?
Edited by the Author.
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I think its just you, Phillipe. Much more people are simply reading rather that spurting out the first thing that comes to their head.
If this were a true debate than JP wouldve won ages ago, probably on spelling and grammar alone.
But ofcourse its not a true debate.
"They know that the life of Jesus existed, they used carbon-dating on the various records," Do you even know what carbon dating is? You cannot prove the existance of an individual from 'records', by which I believe you are referring to evidence. Carbon dating is used to find a rough, not prefect, date on on a piece of evidence which was once living. Perhaps you meant DNA testing, in which case there would still need to be a sample of Jesus DNA to compare to.
"Really? Is it determined by your social society? If it were determined my the will of the whole society, then why would the whole society consistantly defeat thier will? Porno is evil, and if that was determined by the society and not god, then the society would not look at porno. But of course, the society DOES look at porno, and a lot of it too. The society calls it evil, but they didn't determine it, because what man deems right would be the act of man's will, and evil would be anything that opposes it." I think you've mis-interpretted what RapidFlash means. Lets use the example of a tribe which is isolated from every other society, religious or otherwise. God hasnt told them whats right or wrong, theyve decided themselves, and that 'moral' has been passed down to their children.
Id also like to say, this is also directed at Muz, that just because someone is an atheist doesnt mean theyre morally wrong, it simply means they dont need a bunch of pissy make believe to determine whats the right or wrong thing to do in a situation, which I might add, is usually determined by their society. Oh, and perhaps when you get older you'll appreiciate, as you say,'porno.'
Ill stop picking on you for now, Phillipe, but I will come back to you.
"To me, I think life is a test... God gives us things little by little and you have to go with it. Thats why life isn't fair...
Whats at the end of the universe?
Whats the reason for living? "
There is no reason for living, we just live for a bit, than die. Its what happens inbetween whats important...well not that important, but its the only thing that should be important to you. As long as you can have fun in a way which you're morally happy with. End of the universe? Dont know, probably nothing at all, but I doubt think we'll be around to see it, so who cares.
"For those of you choosing between Atheism or Christianity (or at least looking for good points to bring up), there is a book by C.S. Lewis I believe that you should read. Someone say the name for me, i forget what it's called . You might know what I'm talking about anyways." You must be talking about 'The Chronicles of Narnia'? But I dont see what point it makes towards influencing a religious or athiest life. I do know that Lewis was an anthiest turned christian, but thats his choice. A fairytale (and no matter how didactic or religiously connotational the TCON books were theyre still a fairytale) is not likely to raise much questioning of ones religion, opposed to something like the bible. It DOES however achieve well in teaching morals to children in a way that doest ask them to believe that these things actually happened, which I like as a non-religious person.
"JP: I forgot to mention, we know dinosaurs probably existed. We have their freaking bones! We DON'T have more than words that your arguement is true." Dinosaurs PROBABLY EXISTED? We sure have a lot more evidence they did than that God does. 'Freaking bones' and other physical remains or evidence are much more reliable than any other source. Written evidence will always be bias, and religion would not have survived without it. "We DON'T have more than words that your arguement is true."- we dont have more than spoken word that anything religious is true. It may be possible to prove a guy named Jesus existed, and that he got nailed to a post for saying how good it would be to be nice to people for a change (I hope no-one minds me quoting Douglas Adams), we may even be able to prove that all those geographical events, like earthquakes and stuff happened, but none of these prove that Jesus was supernatural and could do physically impossible things. There is however prove that the 'virgin mary' could not get pregnant whilst still keeping her virgin status, thats simple medical stuff. And we know that its impossible to walk over water, and that...sorry I havent actually read much of the make believe stories, so I cant recall many of the other supernatural things Jesus did. If we're willing to believe in him, than why not superman? Or dinosaurs for christs sake?...bit of irony there in my choice of profanity.
Im done now, and Im sorry to go on a bit, you can probably tell by the first bit I was planning on keeping this short and precise, I guess I just got carried away. This is purely my believes. I have not written it in a friendly way thats likely to convert anyone, because I couldnt really careless. Just thought my opinion was a valid one, and if nothing else something for you to read and know understand what I and a lot of other people believe in, or dont believe in for that matter.
EDIT: Oh and sorry, I didnt set out to attack anyones beliefs, it just sort of happened.
Edited by the Author.
'oh yeah? he's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?'
"Really? Is it determined by your social society? If it were determined my the will of the whole society, then why would the whole society consistantly defeat thier will? Porno is evil, and if that was determined by the society and not god, then the society would not look at porno. But of course, the society DOES look at porno, and a lot of it too. The society calls it evil, but they didn't determine it, because what man deems right would be the act of man's will, and evil would be anything that opposes it."
By what your presuming, "right" would be what everyone wants, and "wrong" would be what everyone hates, but the way you would have it, it wouldn't make sense! Thousands of people LOVE to look at porno, but they know its wrong. Why would they defy their own will if their will was what's "right"? Good and Evil was determined by God, not society's will. Don't mix interpretaion of good and evil with determination of good and evil. "
Perhaps I should've added more to my explanation. Society isn't just what you or anyone else wants it to be. It's creation is more invisible than that. Plus, what about places where they don't believe in God? And what about different religions that have different beliefs in good and evil? And I hate to do this, but I'm going to have to: The Nazis thought it was okay to kill Jews. To them, they weren't doing "evil". Same with the Crusaders. However, God/Jesus considered killing to be "evil". So God doesn't decide what good and evil is.
EDIT: I didn't see istvan's post. He basically said it the best.
Istvan: When i said "dinosaures probably existed", that would be the equivelint of "I am agreeing with you JP, dinoaurs existed". I don't pay very much attention to slight exagerations, as well do many people when they talk about stuff. Sorry if you misinterpreted, but thats what i meant.
I wasn't talking about the Chronicles of Narnia. Duh. Maybe it was J. R. Tolkein who wrote it? Ugh, I'm not sure. The book was written while the guy was trying to disprove christianity, only to realize how true it is, yackity yack yack, whatever. I'll try and find the name. I think it was the writer of LOTR (Short for the Lord of the Rings, for those of you who wouldn't know).
As for typing and grammatical errors, you forgot a space in "But ofcourse its not a true debate." I'm not being maniacly evil, just pointing out something I thought was funny. Of course, i misspell stuff all of the time, but that just had good placement on your part.
The lesson for today is: Lessons of the day are usually stupid and pointless, so don't listen to them.
Games currently in "the works":
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My Fantasy (dieing dream)
Shadowed Sunset (this one will be cool)
Dragon Riders (Newer, better animated, cooler, and less gradient version!)
....................
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wow... i havent been looking at the DC for a while, and look how far this string has gotten. Tisk tisk, never leave a religious forum dormant, it makes you look like a coward
Games currently in "the works":
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My Fantasy (dieing dream)
Shadowed Sunset (this one will be cool)
Dragon Riders (Newer, better animated, cooler, and less gradient version!)
....................
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. I wonder how many Christians, like me (as in me being a Christian, not being offended 
), are offended by "thus, like religion, atheism also springs from human hope and fear". That is only a theory as for Christianity. Then again, one could argue that Christianity is only a theory, but i would think not 
Jesus forced several people out of the temple with a whip of chords bcuz they were giving money "to be saved and forgiven" Doesn't that strike you as the least bit humorous?
Edited by the Author.
