Well what I think is, It's bullshit when someone says that being gay is a chemical imbalance in the brain. First, I think that idea is stupid, and if it is a chemical imbalance, wouldn't that be considered, hmmm... I don't know? A MENTAL ILLNESS!? The duchebag that came up with that theory is problably the same retard who says that being obese is a virus.
Gays should have the same rights as straight people. They are no different and I can't believe people are still fighting this. There should be no opinions on gay marriages, just the truth that all people are equal and we should not oppress the gays.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
I never knew you thought about me like that, Gilgamesh. Unfortunately I'm in love with Jason Orange from Take That, and it's only a matter of time before we become intimate.
JP: Does mental illness mean anything to you? I hate the fact that gays put themselves on levels of different races or things like that... Thus I shouldn't persecute them myself... Baahaah!
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
18th June, 2004 at 18:25:27 -
marriages: yes, adopting kids: no.
to clarify: homosexuality is not caused by a chemicle inbalance, nor is it classified as a psychological disorder. it's not new either, it's been around since the dawn of time
personally, i believe that gay marriage is fine. there is no reason to deny homosexuals the right to live as heterosexuals do. however i do have a problem with homosexual couples (gay or lesbian) adopting kids, simply because it's unfair on the kids. if you are homosexual, then having kids is something that is biologically not possible - so you should not try and "cheat" nature by adopting a child. as a psychology student as well, such an adoption is potentially damaging for the child, who (Freudians argue) requires a parent/role model of each gender to succesfully develop.
I don't think it's a chemical imbalance, and I don't think they choose to be gay. I didn't choose to be attracted to women. And the fact that homosexuality occurs in the wild among animals should be proof enough that is 100% normal and nothing to be ashamed about.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
I wouldn't say its normal, in the wild there is no such thing as marriage and mating is just to produce more of the species...... its not possible in a homosexual relationship to do so, thus its not "normal" (In other words, it serves no point AT ALL).
I can respect the rights of gays to live as they please but to define marriage as a marriage between a man and a women OR a man and a man OR a women and a women is just not right.... frankly it is an insult.. mabey something LIKE marriage could be created with the same legal rights besides the right to adoption (as I think that is a crime aganst nature) but not the SAME as marriage!
That's just my view, call me narrow minded if you will but I belive I am right and that's all that matters in my mind.
vortex you have to structure your sentences better, that was hard to follow.
Sure it serves no purpose from a reproductive standpoint, no matter how hard you try buttsex wont make a baby, but it is completely normal for some men to like other men. Of course marriage does not exist in the wild, but homosexuality between to animals is not uncommon. male dogs humping each other, male birds trying to mount other male birds. One case of toads in Alaska, they thaw, and have a short amount of time to reproduce before the next frost comes. The result is that for about a month it's a wild orgy of toads, and in the confusion, males will have anal sex with other male toads. There are gay animals, and gay humans, gay is a fact, and gays have feelings. To treat gays as subhuman is disgusting.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
Some people can go a little too far with their anti-gay wedding phobias.
I was reading up on some FFXI message boards where the game developers post at. It seems that they recently enabled marriages in the game. I saw some threads by people begging and pleading that they made sure there were no same sex marriages. O.o
In EQ they do it, though. So if you play online games, and you're gay, and looking to get married, go to Everquest! =P
I find it interesting how the word "gay" went from meaning "happy" to "homosexual" to a generic derogatory word. True fact: I overheard some little kids calling a boy "gay" because he liked to hang out with girls!
"Omg. Where did they get the idea to not use army guys? Are they taking drugs?" --Tim Schafer on originality in videogames
But seriously, I don't really have anything against gay marriages as such. Marriage, when you think about it, is pretty much just a legal way of coupling together two people who wish to spend their lives together and are in love...or whatever. I see nothing wrong with the law officially saying that two members of the same sex are a couple.
However, the problem is to do with children of course. The moral concern is around having a 'normal' upbringing in a family with both a male and female parent. I think it's a good thing to have both parties represented in an unbringing of a child, but the thing is, how many children these days get that sort of upbringing?
Not many really.
I mean just think about the number of children who grow up in a home where the parents have split, or a parent has died. Sure, some of these kids have problems later on in life, but it can't be helped in alot of cases.
I think homosexual partners CAN raise a child to be perfectly normal. So long as they teach their child that there are options as far as sexual preference goes.
MUGGUS
Come and annoy me more at
www.muggus69.tk STOUT ANGER!!!
Muggus: I don't see that kids would inherit homosexuality from their parents. It is not a choice, it is how you were born. Hanging out with my gay friend has not made me develop a appreciation of a mans ugly hairy ass.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
Beginning of time, you say? A gay dinosaur... imagine that.
ew.
Gilg, I appear to have dropped the soap. Could you get it for me?
Edited by the Author.
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
To those who argue that marraige is strictly for the purposes of producing children... would you deny a man and a woman the right to wed if one of them were steril? I doubt it.
Also, at least in America, we pride ourselves on having separation between church and state. To ban gay marraige based on biblical law (as most use as the basis for their arguments) would be unconstitutional -- regardless of whether it is moral or not, it violates one of the very foundations of our government.
I agree with vortex. Marriage is somewhat of a sacred rite, and it's between a man and a woman. Like vortex said, it is sort of an insult to have same sex marriages. We don't kill homosexuals anymore for who they are, I think marrying is pushing it alittle. (hmmm, that last sentence was alitte....)
For f sakes... BURN THEM ALL!!!!!! No wait... them meaning who and who meaning when?
I didn't state the them so I guess I can go nowhere...
Anywayz, Don't ask me this topic...oh wait you didn't. But for crying out loud...
Vortex is the man or lady or w/e...probably man but anywayz for saying what I was thinking. Will it soon be legal to marry your mom? or father? GAG! But for come on....
"I have dreamed a dream... But now that dream is gone from me."
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
20th June, 2004 at 12:11:13 -
vortex, there is more to marriage than sex - commitment, sharing, etc - it's a way for couples to show their affection. if you are taking a religious standpoint on this, you need to realize that marriage is almost completely detatched from religion now, so to still try and defend your perceived "values" of marriage using Christianity as a backup is flawed. marriage is not a "sacred right" as grazzum puts it either.
"It is a choice, they just use that as an excuse to make people feel sorry for them."
this is a stupid thing to say. gays don't chose to be gay any more than you chose to be straight. and the idea of "feeling sorry" for gays is ludicrous. why should we? they're perfectly normal.
interesting fact which i read today: in Britain, only 0.3% of couples are same-sex.
I do not want to be denied marraige with
someone I love, woman or man, as I love them.
Someone said that Gay men have the same rights:
they can marry women. That is not the argument.
They should be able to marry the person they
love.
If I was homosexual, I would want to be given
the same rights as the straight man/woman.
Morally, gay marraige is fine.
Politically, it should be the same, I think.
If we deny gay men the right to marry those
they love, we must equal it out by doing the
same for straight men, and where would that
get us?
-Above post is ancient and probably irrelevant-
An old account of mine, recently cleared out. It's a blast to the past, the age was marked as 14 when I found it. If you know where to look, you can track me. Au revoir.
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
20th June, 2004 at 17:25:26 -
marvel, you cannot infer cause and effect in cases such as these. there's no proof to say that "abnormality" (individual difference) is caused by chemicle inbalance than there is to say that chemicle imbalance is caused by abnormality.
At any rate, I cannot believe that people actually think negatively about gays an their rights. We have come so far, but it amazes me that we still don't have equal rights for everyone. Gays not only need marraige rights to sanctify their marraige, but for tax benifits. Gays are humans, blacks are human, jews are human, whites, japs, you name it, humans deserve to be treated like humans. We are all created equal, this should not even be a question.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
Back to topic. Homosexual people should have the right to marriage each other just like heterosexual. Why? I agree with others that marriage and religion is two seperate things.
Since both homosexual and heterosexual people are created equally they should have the same basic rights like marriage. Marriage is a way to express love to one another but also a question about inheritance, securing ones partner economy through eg insurance (in case of death or severe injury) as well other topics. In that sense marriage changes a lot compared to just being together.
As a result of that, marriage is not a matter of religion and marriage should be a right for everyone (man-woman, man-man or woman-woman). If a particular religion wishes to make a religious marriage between a couple is up to the religion interely. However as a matter between the individual and government the case is clear, marriage should be a funtamental right.
As to the question why you are homosexual or heterosexual the last information on the topic I have read suggested sexual preference is decided during pregnancy. Your sexual preference could supposedly be seen directly in your brain as a centain center in the brain based on size showed wether you felt attraction to women or men. If the center was "large" you were attracted to women and if it was "small" you were attracted to women. "Normally" men (heterosexual ones) would have a "large" center which ment they were attracted to women. Homosexuals however had a small center meaning they would feel attracted to men. The same principle was seen at women just the other way around.
One could argue that it is not normal to be homosexual as only a minority is homosexual. However if new research is correct being homosexual is almost like being born with a fysical or psychological error. It is a product of random errors from mother nature and not something you can control yourself. As a result sexual preference is an unwillingly given attribute. It is not something we should be sorry about simply something we should accept and treat homosexuals just like any one else.
"this is a stupid thing to say. gays don't chose to be gay any more than you chose to be straight. and the idea of "feeling sorry" for gays is ludicrous. why should we? they're perfectly normal."
AH ha! You do choose to be straight/gay. While it isn't a consious decision, it is a decision none the less. Meaning, while you don't just go and think to yourself "Hmm... I'm gonna be gay today" you do in your subconsious. I look at Homosexuality as a mental illness. Think about it. Who in their right mind would want to be gay? And I don't think we have to go around and change a whole shitload of things because some people think "Oh, gay people are cool". Sooner or later, if this all continues, gay will be normal, because with more and more people saying, it's cool, more and more people won't be thinking subconciouly about it, but consicously. So, instead of people looking for a chick, or a girl looking for a guy, we'll have people looking for either sex, and that is creapy to have eveyone doing it. What I meant before when I yelled think about the locker rooms, I mean the fact that we will have to then have personal locker rooms, because no one is going to be comfortable haveing anyone checking them out, and seeing how everyone could be bi or gay, that would make alot of people more uncomfortable. So, schools that are poor, like mine, would be forced to pay money that they don't have to do all this shit when they could have stopped it at the beginning. And this is just one of the many things that could happen. So those of you who say gays should have the same rights that we do, you are wrong. Dustin G was right when he said they already do. And I think that's far enough for them.
Anyways, think of the days back then when you used to be able to call anyone gay to insult them, but now the insult has changed to homophobe. This is all going coo coo! I mean, I like change, but this isn't the change we should be going for.
But all in all, anyway you look at it, it's a mental disorder.
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
"The American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from its diagnostic list of mental disorders in 1973..."
gee, after 2 minutes with google i've found several credible sites that think what you're saying is bullshit. let's couple that with 30 years of cultural change and the fact that the majority of people (evidenced here -- at least) accept homosexuality as normal, and i think that's enough to expose you as a mindless bigot with dated and flawed views.
the one i like most is the APA quote, mainly becuase it exposes you as the idiot you really are. don't you think the APA are more qualified to make a decision than you? what about the BPS, they did the same thing. whatever country you live in, homosexuality is NOT classed as a mental disorder. you are wrong.
additionally, homosexuality is NOT a choice - you saying this makes me think you are either taking the piss or you are incredibly dense and even more bigotted than i first thought. i hope for the former yet suspect the latter.
Frankly, I really don't care what they say, and I have my reasons, but that would be a compleatly different topic. Notice how I said that this is my opinion, smart guy. You don't have to believe me, after all, I'm just an idiot right?
How can you say such things Gilgamesh? Gay's have it bad enough without people like you who are ignorant to their situation. There are over 240,000,000 gays in the world right now, as 4% of the earth's population is homosexual. That is equivalent to every American citizen being gay. You can't oppress the gayness out of them, let them be, and learn to tolerate them.
Homophobe is an insult because they are ignorant jackasses! I can equal you to a racist. It is the change we should be going for, where other people are accepted, and prejudiced people are left in the dust.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
I think it's perfectly ok for gay people to marry. I mean, why shouldn't they? Two people that are in love should be able to get married, straight or not. Geez.
Who cares? I don't really have an opinion at the moment, but I will say this: Gay's adopting kids is just plain wrong. It screws-up their brains....No pun intended.
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
Draw a comparison between gays and Jews. (Stay with me here.) Hitler hated Jews and oppressed them; did they all lay down and die or convert just because some guy (albeit with power and a big army) said their religious beliefs were wrong? Nope. The same's true of gay people. You can beat them up if you want, but that's not going to change much. They can't do anything about their sexual preference, and nobody else can change it either. And it's not like they're going to turn heterosexuals gay, is it?
Gays adopting children is totally wrong, it seriously messes up the children. Think what it would be like at school for them...
"Shame you have two dads"
"Haha you have gay parents."
It'd end up in suicide, I know I would if I had two fags gallivanting around the house naked and kissing each other.
Don't get me wrong, if they want to be gay, then let them be gay. I just am against them thinking they should be parents. Parents should consist of a man and a women, not a man or a man, or a woman and a woman. Let's keep the balance right.
CB: "And it's not like they're going to turn heterosexuals gay, is it?"
What about Queer Eye for the Straight guy?
Anyways, I think some of you have got me totally wrong, IE, Pete. I'm not trying to bash gays, although I don't think that homosexuality is right, I'm not trying to hurt the people. I said that it is, and still believe that it is a mental illness, meaning that they should get help. Now, I'm not talking about gay traits or anything like that, just the sexual fact.
Regardless of what the APA says, I don't think it's right just to go and believe them, or any of those other places/people/objects, neither is it right to just up and believe someone like me. It's always good to form your own opinions on things. In my opinion, I believe that the APA and other of those are human, and they do have their own minds. You have said that homosexuals don't chose to be gay, yet to me that makes it seem even more of a mental illness. If homosexuality isn't a mental illness, then they'd have to take away other mental illnesses, like anti-social people, or schitzophrenics, or whatever else you can think of. After all, they don't choose to do the things they do, do they? Pete, you told me that feeling sorry for gays is stupid, well, people do that. That's problably how it was taken off of being a mental illness.
The APA obviously also does not know their history. Let's go back to the Roman Empire. Back then homosexuality was the opposite of what it was today. It was less talked about but done more often. But when it was talked about, the argument was that it was ok. So a woman was for making children, and another man was for a good time. That's what I was refering to in one of my previous posts. How would you like it if homosexuality was widely accepted? How would you react if all your children turned out to be gay?
On to something else, JP, you said that homophobes are jackasses, what about the people that assume that everyone who doesn't like gays are afraid of them? Like I said, I don't like gays, but I'm not scared of them, nor do I think you should go around bashing them. So to say that I'm oppressing them is retarded. And it's wrong to put them on the same level as a race.
Have you ever seen the show? They help unclean straight men improve their standard of living to attract females. Usually they make then dinner then propose. If you are worried about gay's converting you then you have underlying issues with your own sexuality. I don't care if someone is gay or not, if I am around a homosexual I am not worried that I will suddenly want a wank in my mouth, because I know I like titties and clams.
"Regardless of what the APA says, I don't think it's right just to go and believe them,"
These guys at the APA are experts. Doctors. They know what they are talking about. You are going to have to trust other people in your life. They do not know their history? When did history ever become an issue. Back in the Roman times it was just accepted. Even the Roman emperors were gay, such as:
Ortho- had hair plucked from his body, wore a wig, shaved daily and smeared his face with moist bread so he would never have a beard. He is rumored to have been Nero's lover.
Domitian - It is uncertain that the rumors that he had sex with boys and was paid for sex with Nerva amongst others was but a political smear.
Trajan - is said to have been enamored of boys including a pantomime dancer Pylades and is said to have treated his lovers well.
In Greece, male nudity was a widespread phenomenon of Greek life. Nudity was practiced not only in the gymnasia but also at religious ceremonies, at public festivals and at private feasts where the young cupbearers and dancers were usually nude.
I didn't say homophobes necessarily are afraid, but they hold them in contempt. There are a lot of people like you out there, which is why gays are being held down.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
So your saying that the APA is correct in every single instance? Are they gods or something where they can make any decision and they are correct? So what if they're experts? Martial Artist experts make mistakes occasionally. They're human, they're able to make mistakes. George Bush and all those other presidents are so called "experts" at running this country and they make all sorts of mistakes and disicions in running the US. There are thousands of other people that everyone says they suck at what they do, but for some reason, anyone whose in Psychology is Perfect.
What is your problem anyways? Your acting like I'm trying to kill them? Are you gay or something? I said they need help. And I also said that gay traits don't matter. The only thing about them that needs to be changed is the fact that they sleep with other men. Kind of like taking one of those dirty incestous southerners and taking away the incestous part. They can still act southern and be like the sterotypical dirty incestous southerner, accept they sleep with normal people. Your like totally taking this like an insult and its just wacky. Well anywho...
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
22nd June, 2004 at 14:05:10 -
"How would you like it if homosexuality was widely accepted? How would you react if all your children turned out to be gay?"
it is widely accepted. welcome to the 21st century, get over it. do you live in a town where there are no gay bars and Will & Grace is banned from public broadcast?
if my kids turned out to be gay, how would i react? what, you think that i'd care the slightest? they'd still be my kids. i'd still love them. i'd respect them for what they are and not what i want them to be.
and we're not talking about opinions here. we're talking about FACTS. it is a FACT that homosexuality is not a disorder. just like you can't have the "opinion" that the world is flat, you are disproven by science.
and mental illness is a mental illness if it IMPEDES daily functionality. schizophrenia stops you from having a normal life. psychopathy stops you from having a normal life. homosexuality does not. therefore it is not a mental illness. people don't feel sorry for gays, they RESPECT them just as they respect anyone else. in fact, if a man next to me stood up and shouted "i'm gay!", i'd have more respect for him, because he'd be standing up to the mindless homophobes like you.
I'm not saying that the APA is always correct, but that unlike martial arts experts, many of them together do independent studies and compare their results, to end up with their conclusion. Compared to what, your opinion on the subject, that’s just how you were raised, you probably heard someone say it was a mental illness.
My problem is that you want to force change in them. If I was gay would that be a problem? I think I have already stated that I am not gay, and I feel queasy when two men kiss.
As for incest, gays don't harm anyone, but when you have sex with your sister, there are bound to be birth defects in the baby.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
"it is widely accepted. welcome to the 21st century, get over it."
If it's sooo widely accepted, then how come there's always still a discussion about it? I'm sure it it was sooo widely accepted, no one would give two shits about gays being married, but there are still a lot of people that do.
"if my kids turned out to be gay, how would i react? what, you think that i'd care the slightest? they'd still be my kids. i'd still love them. i'd respect them for what they are and not what i want them to be."
You say that now, but just you wait. Anybody can just say something, now you just have to prove it some how.
JP: "I didn't say homophobes necessarily are afraid, but they hold them in contempt."
Homophobes ARE afraid. Homophobe is short for homophobia, is it not? And a phobia, I thought, was something you are afraid of, I guess I must have been wrong.
Pete: "and we're not talking about opinions here. we're talking about FACTS. it is a FACT that homosexuality is not a disorder. just like you can't have the "opinion" that the world is flat, you are disproven by science."
Me (VERY FIRST POST): "What are your opinions on gay marraiges?"
I believe that's the conversation here, smart guy. I think we're having two differnt conversations here, pete. I'm here just stating my opinion, and your out here on a crusade to change mine. Let me just say this pete, you are not going to change my opinion, nor do I think I'm going to change yours, or JP's, or anyone elses for that matter. You can't just have an argument and expect the other guy to go, Oh yeah, your exactly right, what was I thinking. So, I suggest that we all just calm down so that we don't get into a stupid hissy fit about stuff.
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
22nd June, 2004 at 17:21:15 -
arguing is pointless but that doesn't mean it isn't fun.
look, you are presenting an incorrect fact as an opinion. it's like me saying "it is my opinion that the world is flat". it's a stupid opinion to have, because it is wrong. hitler believed that the jews needed to be exterminated. he was wrong. opinions can be wrong, and some opinions need to be changed in order to make the world more harmonious - forgive the hippy talk. i'm not getting in a hissy fit, i'm just pushing the point. also, you've started the post, and it's gone off on a slight, not-so-unpredictable tangent - which you've run with. you can't try and stop the debate just by saying we're off topic.
My previous post has been deleted...Guess it was bad or something...Anyway, I think that, if you must be gay, don't adopt. Think of the children... They'll be messed up for the rest of their lives. And they'll end up running themselves off of a cliff or something because they can't except the horrid truth: their parents were gay, and they were adopted.
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
It is a mental illnise, controlled by sicoligy though. Its basicly if a guy thinks they love another guy, something is going wrong with the natrual balance in there head. If its not natrual for 2 guys or 2 laties to make love, & they think they should, something is wrong somewhere in there brain. Its plain enstint! A cat attacks a mouse because its enstint, a male should not be sexually attracted to another male or vise versa.
Hehe, Brandon's tryong yo help out your cause. I will correct his spelling mistakes to make it legible, even if the content is crap.
It is a mental illness, controlled by sociology* though. It[’]s basically [like] if a guy thinks [he] love[s] another guy, something is going wrong with the natural balance in [their] head. If its not natural for [two] guys or [two] [ladies] to make love, & they think they should, something is wrong somewhere in [their] brain. Its plain “instinct“! A cat attacks a mouse because its [instinct], a male should not be sexually attracted to another male or vise versa**.
*Assuming this is the word you meant, the sentence still does not make sense.
**Vise versa meaning neither male should be attracted to each other. I think he meant it goes for women also.
It is NOT a mental illness, refer to Pete's post.
Steve Zissou: Anne-Marie, do all the interns get Glocks?
Marriage is the union between a man and a woman. If gays want to get married so badly, they can call it something else.
Also gays shouldn't adopt, it is unfair to the child. A child needs a mother and father, and no, just because you dress in drag doesn't make you a mum.
Teapot, you're a bigot, and 20 years from now being a close-minded ignorant fool like you will be no different than being a racist today is. 50 years ago interracial marriage would've caused a stir, but now we've got someone new to pick on. Why do some people care SO MUCH about something that doesn't effect them? Ohhh you're protecting the sacred act of marriage? Bullshit. Two words, Las Vegas. There's nothing sacred about weddings anymore..half of them don't even succeed in the US, and you just want to exclude people who you don't understand because you choose not to understand them. And your comment about adoption? A kid needs both a mom and a dad? A large percentage of kids are raised by single mothers because dead beat dads who won't pay child support would rather get drunk and hit the town (or the wife, for that matter). There are a lot of caring, loving homes with gay parents that the child could be born into. Homosexuality isn't right, it isn't wrong, it shouldn't even have a moral weight attached to it because you don't choose your sexual preference and it harms noone in society..but your 2000 year old morals which are in dire need of an update are trying to hold the fort of oppression on society when everyone else has come to their senses. Get over it, go on with your life, and maybe if you were a part of a minority that was oppressed you'd understand too.
I haven't yet contributed to this, so I'll just wade in at this point...
First, well done Darkstar. The argument that the existing definition of marriage will be tarnished is a stupid one - how can this make marriage any less meaningful? Remember when Britney Spears got married to whatshisname, and it lasted 17 hours? Now, that's a meaningless marriage.
However (and some might not like me for this) I'm less keen on married gays being allowed to adopt children. I'm not going to argue that it shouldn't be done because it's "unfair on the child", but just because the union of two of the same sex could not produce a child - so it's unnatural for it to be allowed to happen in this way. (This wasn't worded very well, but do you know what I'm trying to say?)
I would have to agree. It's 16 year old idiots who marry a girl cause they don't want to have pre-marital sex that fxck up the institution of marraige. You guys should have a lot worse things to worry about, seriously.
Here's my opinion of things. I believe I am liberal on the issue, like the "majority", but in realistic practice, homosexuals being everywhere still makes me slightly uncomfortable. Mainly because the ones I've had to deal with are very infedelite to their partners and whatnot and make me feel that their bisexuality/homosexuality is part of a fad instead of "the real deal". And no matter what your sexual preference, I very much dislike people who cheat, or are unfaithful.
That being said, those homosexuals who do wish to marry I believe have a LOT more burden put on them to make sure they're doing what's right for them, and therefore a much HIGHER number of those couples will have the chance to form a meaningful relationship. This also leads me onto the topic of adoption:
I believe that homosexual COUPLES should be allowed to adopt, but those who are single should not for the same reasons I think a heterosexual individual should not be allowed to adopt -- because there is no maternal/paternal instinct associated with an adopted child, there is no way for a stable parenthood can evolve without having two parents. Herein lies some interesting legal quagmires, which thanks to a lot of you guys who form the public opinion, cause a lot of problems for people who have changed their lifestyle.
Problem 1. Overcoming the stereotype that all homosexuals have infidelities. Most of you people who are against gay adoption would probably cite this as some sort of fact which will totally screw up a kid. In my personal opinion (which I'm afraid I can't back up with hard facts at this point), most homosexuals probably wouldn't even CONSIDER adopting unless they've already established a family atmosphere in their household and were at least somewhat ready for it. Wouldn't you do the same thing if you were going to adopt?
Problem 2. The belief that the child will have developmental problems due to other people's judgement upon them due to their parents' lifestyle. This is harder to debunk than the first problem, but say the majority of people in this day and age above the age of 18 already believe homosexuals should have equal rights as hetero's since they're 1/20 of our population. If this is to be the case, then the majority of children being raised in hetereosexual households should already be being taught the proper values of society and that it is an acceptable lifestyle. Which means they shouldn't make fun of Billy who has Two Moms. This being the case, only those in the small minority who actively condemn homosexuality would go so far as to allow their children to ostracize one of their peers for something as meager as having two dads or two moms. Shame on them, and shame on you if you support them.
Problem 3. The legal problem. In several states, it's illegal for homosexuals to adopt anyway, despite constitutional concerns. Take a case in florida where a woman who had previously adopted entered into a lesbian relationship and was (if I remember correctly) FORCED AGAINST HER WILL to revoke her maternal rights. This, in my humble opinion, is a GROSS miscarraige of justice in the best interests of the child. What exactly is the state hoping to accomplish to better the life of a child by removing it from a FIT mother?
I think that's all I gotta say for now. Pete and Darky might be able to elaborate on any of my points if they have any more knowledge on the (few) actual facts/stories I presented amongst the opinions here.
P.S. Unrelated statistic: Speaking of 4% of the population being homosexuals, did you know that up to 1 in 2000 births in the US are of intersexed gender? We should really start re-thinking boolean logic on the gender issue in this day and age, just imagine what kind of rights the intersexed will have to fight for once we clear this whole homosexual rights issue. These people are genetically/phyisically predisposed, a medical fact which cannot be argued like our current political debate on a sexual lifestyle. And yet, nobody argues about what their rights are o.o (in fact, most of them are surgically mutilated at birth and are given gender assignment by the doctor or parents or both -- sometimes even against their normal genetic assignment!)
I believe gays are well... mentally handicapped. Just like how stuff like... dylexia is a handicap, so is homosexuality. It ain't natural and should NOT be encouraged. It's not the same as racism. Racism is an entirely different thing.
Like most mental illnesses (e.g. dementia, schizophrenia, mania, phobia), it CAN be developed. They should be allowed to go out and say "I'm gay" without being stoned, but that doesn't mean that they should go around telling people how cool being gay is.
However, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have rights. Gays should be allowed to marry and stuff... but I still disagree with how people tend to encourage them. It's become 'political'. Just like feminists, instead of "equal rights", politicians are giving them "extra rights". And when someone says the slightest thing against them, they're ganged up on by the politically correct.
As for the issue on adoption, I think it should be allowed to a child that is old enough to think for himself and decide whether (s)he'd want to be adopted by two queers. If (s)he doesn't mind, then it's all OK.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Hmmm... The only good reason I have heard to say that gays adopting is
bad is because they will get made fun of. They would only get made fun
of because of you people saying gay people are unnatural!
People think nature is perfect! People think nature doesn't screw up,
and when the human race screws up, it is never put ever to blame on
nature! Get this: WE ARE NATURE! We are just like apes. If there was
a gay ape, would you say it was the apes causing problems? NO! You
would blame it on nature. No wait, you would blame it on the apes
because "nature is Puurfect..." *sigh*
Nature screws up, and truthfully, gay people pose problems in ecosystems,
EXCEPT we are already overpopulating. I say we get chainsaws and go
murder a few million straight men and women so we can cut overpopulation,
or AT LEAST get in to space soon. Not now, soon. Going now, like bush
suggests is a really stupid idea. We arn't prepared and the american
economy is falling into a hole. A good idea would be: raise gas taxes to
get more money for the government! That would be environmentally and
economically smart.
-Above post is ancient and probably irrelevant-
An old account of mine, recently cleared out. It's a blast to the past, the age was marked as 14 when I found it. If you know where to look, you can track me. Au revoir.
An old account of mine, recently cleared out. It's a blast to the past, the age was marked as 14 when I found it. If you know where to look, you can track me. Au revoir.
"
I believe gays are well... mentally handicapped. Just like how stuff like... dylexia is a handicap, so is homosexuality. It ain't natural and should NOT be encouraged. It's not the same as racism. Racism is an entirely different thing. "
Muz, atleast spell it right... its dyslexia. I have it, and have managed to get over it quite well thank you very much. I don't see how you get off even using the two in the same argument. "Gayness" is a choice, not a mental disorder.
However assuming you are right and "Gayness" IS a mental disorder, then it doesnt even compare because you can't "cure" it. For dyslexia there are ways to overcome it.
Next time : A) Don't talk. B) Look up what your talking about , or C) Don't Talk. Yes I said it twice.
A gay couple marrying doesn't affect you or anyone else anymore than a straight couple would. I'm sure both straight and gay couples can be good parents, just like both can be bad parents. Adopted kids of gay couples being teased aren't their or their parents' fault, but the fault of society.
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
A gay couple marrying doesn't affect you or anyone else anymore than a straight couple would. I'm sure both straight and gay couples can be good parents, just like both can be bad parents. Adopted kids of gay couples being teased aren't their or their parents' fault, but the fault of society.
See, that's exactly my point. Are we all philosophers here, or the morality police, btw. Unnatural, my ass. You can't say it's both unnatural AND a mental disease. If you happen to believe it's a purely lifestyle choice, I'd tend to disagree, as well. Five bucks says in 50 years we'll be able to see whether it was a "choice" at all, or just people repressing their natural orientation until they couldn't hold it anymore.
Edit: The reason I say you can't say it's both unnatural and a mental disease at the same time is because if homosexuality were a mental disease, per se (and I don't believe it is), then it is a product of nature, and not unnatural in the literal sense. Only in some closed-minded person's sense, I'd argue.
Yup, Nobu, that's what I think. It's natural. And it is NOT
a lifestyle choice. The only choice is to hide it or not, if
you are homosexual.
TOPIC EVOLUTION SENTENCE:
Yeah, I'm fine being around gay people, until they start hitting on me.
-Above post is ancient and probably irrelevant-
An old account of mine, recently cleared out. It's a blast to the past, the age was marked as 14 when I found it. If you know where to look, you can track me. Au revoir.
On a side note, isn't it strange how the (Catholic) Church opposes homosexuality, yet you still get a few priests who do certain things with the choirboys?
Everything about the Catholic Church is a contradiction.
-Above post is ancient and probably irrelevant-
An old account of mine, recently cleared out. It's a blast to the past, the age was marked as 14 when I found it. If you know where to look, you can track me. Au revoir.
I say gay marriages are bad... Ok too plain harsh. God made man and woman to be together, not man and man or woman and woman. Ok, im NOT being any kind of racist or whatnot, blacks were mistreated and gay...hrm, homosexual people are mistreated as well right? Blacks didnt fell like they "fit in" the white crowd or whatever, homosexuals dont "fit in" either. But the difference is that blacks were just born dark, and dark? Think about it, why would you hate someone for being a different color? Technically, we all are different colors, because say u got 2 "light-colored" guys right? They both have a skin texture of, say....peach, they dont really look the same color if a skin sample of 'em was shown through a microscope, they have different color, maybe it looks the same, but it's not. So african-americans are like all others...they have different skin color so do everyone else.
Sorry, back to gay marriages, they choose to be gay or "homosexual" by themselves right?...Most of 'em at least, they choose to be this way because they have the RIGHT to. African-americans can't choose to be what they are, they are what God made 'em to be. When they were slaves they had no rights, but homosexual people are not even slaves they get treated 10000000 times better than african-americans were, back in the day. Homosexuals are what they CHOOSE to be, because of their rights.
They are like that because (sorry if u dont believe what im abouta say) satan tempted and persuaded their minds and hearts to believe in loving the same sex. Once 2 homosexual people are married they have a bond right? Their bond goes straight to hell if they dont give themselves to God......... If all that didnt answer your question Gilgamesh, then im sorry, i'm not the best writer or philosopher or scientist or preacher in the world. And i seriously mean this: NO OFFENSE WHATSOEVER TO ANYBODY, OR ANYTHING IN THIS RESPONSE... so dont randomly get mad, everyone has their opinions, but not every has Jesus...
ukrainianite, homosexuals do NOT choose to be homosexual no more than you choose to be heterosexual. Unless you want to argue that satan also tempts animals (homosexualism is also seen among animals) ... but as far as I know only man has the privilege of entering the heaven (or hell which is not really a privilege).
So, god did actually create people to be homosexual if we keep the religious view. Ive posted this before, but find it necessary to repeat. Marriage between the individual and government and marriage between the individual and religion is two seperate things. In terms of law and government homosexual as well as heterosexual marriage should be allowed since it is not the government or law to decide who can be married (unless in certain extreme cases like marriage with an underaged etc.). If a religion wish to make a religious marriage with a homosexual couple or not is INTERELY up to the religion itself.
People who believe you can choose your sexuality, think about this. I am a male. What do I feel if I think about having sex with another man? I feel sick. I feel like puking. I think it is one of the most disgusting things in the world. I would do it if death was the only alternative (asuming I would die did I not do it) ... however I would avoid it at all costs. I am sure you (males) feel similarly. At least if you are heterosexual. Now science have stated that homosexuals are psychologically similar to heterosexuals (they are "normal"). This means that if homosexuals choose their sexuality they actually choose something that disgust them. Would that not be weird? Also why would anyone choose a sexuality that they knew would oppress them? As homosexuals are as "normal" as heterosexuals it does not make sense.
The way I see it, it's pointless to try and argue with gay supporters. They aren't going to aknowledge any view but their own, and when they see a different view, they won't do anything but shoot it down with out any second thoughts about what is trying to be gotten across.
Wise sayings:
"A pint of example is worth a gallon of advice."
"Do unto others as you want done unto you."
"An idea is nothing without effort."
"HOLY CRAP!"
Anyway, can everyone stop this anti-catholic shite(although I don't mind what pete did, because Father Ted is hilarious)? Our teachings are NOT a contradiction. What certain excommunicated priests do does not represent the views of the church. That's like saying that because one teacher took drugs, it is the teaching of schools that kids should take drugs. These "bad eggs" do not represent the church, nowhere in the teachings of the church is such activity encouraged, and so
n/a
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
30th June, 2004 at 06:22:11 -
wait wait wait, what's with the double standard teapot? why is it ok for you to shun homosexuality, but when someone starts poking fun at catholicism, a belief system which is a choice and not psychologically predetermined, you get your knickers in a twist? this "anti catholic shite" is opinion, just like all the other posts in this thread.
Blackstorm, the opposite is true as well, as this thread proves. And I don't think I've seen a convincing argument about homosexuality being a CHOICE, whereas our 'nature and/or nurture' theory is more likely and applies to other areas of behaviour as well. (as proven by scientific studies)
Teapot: My comment wasn't aimed at Catholicism itself but the PEOPLE who teach it and their hypocrisy. The point was that they set a bad example, and there are a lot of sheep out there.
Another thing, having to do with animals being "gay".
They are not gay. When a male gets on a male, they are showing their dominance over the lower male. Not gay, like you unnatural people would like to believe.
Wise sayings:
"A pint of example is worth a gallon of advice."
"Do unto others as you want done unto you."
"An idea is nothing without effort."
"HOLY CRAP!"
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
God, all you people with your 2000 year old ideas that you us because you hate everyone that is not like you. It's everywhere. If your'e different in a very small way, people hate you. Well I hate those people not open to new ideas, who use "God" or the "sacred act of marriage" as a way to justify racism. Noone cares, piss off.
Hi!
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Using Religion as a grounds for racism? I haven't used it at all, and none of the people who have used religion in their posts have used it as grounds for "racism" either. Homosexuality is not a race, though the population of them seems to make it look so. Have you seriously seen anyone bash someone else because they are slightly different? No. So quit smokin' your drugs and shut up, wizard.
And regarding the beginning of your post...
"God, all you people with your 2000 year old ideas"
The reason these ideas have been around for 2000+ years is because they work, and maintain civility in the world. If we were to let these ideas go, then the USA, if not the world, would become a civilization of drooling idiots.
If you would like, wizard, you and all the other gays can go to a big island all your own, and die while trying to figure out why you can't make babies.
Wise sayings:
"A pint of example is worth a gallon of advice."
"Do unto others as you want done unto you."
"An idea is nothing without effort."
"HOLY CRAP!"
"The reason these ideas have been around for 2000+ years is because they work, and maintain civility in the world. If we were to let these ideas go, then the USA, if not the world, would become a civilization of drooling idiots."
Want to know some other +2000 year old ideas? Slavery, torture, rape... I guess all of those helped keep the USA a civilization too, huh?
For the record, I have no problem with people being gay. I just think that gay marriage should be called something else, as not to offend the religious origins of marriage. Whilst everyone goes on about how marriage is just a legal thing, its origins are in old religion. It would be like if walt disney had said "We shall have no giant Giraffes in Disneyland" and, just because he was dead, building giant giraffes.
n/a
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
1st July, 2004 at 09:40:45 -
yes, if you wish to continue arguing about religion, transfer to the "Catholicism" thread. the "gay" thread terminates here.
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Edited by the Author.
If you know where to look, you can track me. Au revoir.
