Hey, guys!
Recently I read an article in my local newspaper that said that they are now releasing games about the Bible. In one game, you run around smiting (is that spelled right?) your enimies. Also, you can gain "The Armor of God," a special ability that sheilds you from all blows. Instead of the baddies splurting blood, they get down on their knees and pray when you kill them. The baddies are Roman Soilders who are possessed. Sad, huh? What are your views on this subject?
My views: If they wanted to remain true to the Bible, they would need blood, gore, and sex, because the Bible is filled with all of that stuff (not saying its good ). Also, I don't think kids will buy these games. It will give them a good laugh, of course. If you want to teach kids about Religon, then do it the old fashion way. Heck, beat them if you have to!
Reply, please!
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
theres a game called Bible Adventures on NES. Not only is it the worst games ever, but it has nothing do with the bible. David would fight squirrels in the forest! Just one example of a religious game.
What's sad about that? If a game about jesus is so bad then why are films about him ok?
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
14th July, 2004 at 18:09:52 -
i was going to make a game called Jesus 2000: Judas Must Pay or something, in which you track down and kill judas á la kill bill. i might still do it... the acronym would be the best though, "J2K:JMP".
What about Freddy Vs Jesus? Who'd win that titanic battle?
And I'd love to see your game get made Pete that'd be sweet,
"IN 2004...
JESUS CHRIST...
WILL...
KILL JUDAS."
In fact, sod it, I'll make it.
Not acceptable, unless I'm god. Like in Actraiser.
I started making a game once called Pope Fiction. It was a matio clone, but you played as the pope. Instead of growing bigger when you pick thigs up, you just get a hat that makes you twice as large.
Jesus would be the ultimate platform game star! He can come back from the dead, shoot holy kamehamaha energy blasts, walk on water, and kick demon @**!
I would like to see more Biblicle games, but they always end up being terrible. I think relligous games could be quit fun if you don't have to make it "kid friendly." Who want's to play a game where you can be God, but instead of smighting your enemies you make them sit down and drink tea while you politely ask them to change their ways?
<END RANT>
This would make an interesting mini comp: Make a game based on the Bible. Points would be awarded for accuracy to the Bible, Concept, and gameplay.
You shouldn't go here, there are crazy swedes who mumble about cucumbers:
http://www.crobasoft.com
Are all you people mad? Religious games have worked excellently. Just look at all the Sim/ Age of Empires games, almost all of them are from a God-like perspective! HOHOHO.
HOHOHO? HAH, that gives me a good idea, ulitmate fighter game: JESUS vs SANTA.
Now, I'm highly un-religious, but christ, Jesus would make a great platform character. Just imagine the endless sequels!
'JESUS TWO: THE SECOND COMING'
But ofcourse, all the religious groups would get their knickers in a bunch, complaining that Jesus' beard isnt long enough, or 'there's no way they had bazookas in biblical times' or something.
As long as it wasnt preachy, it could definately work.
'oh yeah? he's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?'
Also last ressurection an click game that was actually pretty good but had lots of controversy with it particulary one site which i think said the creator of it was the Devil himself
It depends somewhat about HOW you use religion in games.
Age of Mythology is an realtime strategy game (if you do not know it) that replaces the old Age of Empires 2. In the game is three different sides. Each side is based upon an old religion (a mythology): The Norse Mythology, the Egyptian and the Greek. The heroes you can get is based on historical characters and by worshiping gods you can advance in the game. The Norse Mythology has Odin, Thor, Freia, Loke and more.
As such there is a kind of religion in the game though the game itself is not religious. Personally I am not against religion in games. It is up to the developers to decide what to make and up to players to decide what to play.
Jesus vs. Santa sounds a lot like one Southpark episode I saw where they make a cartoon where Santa and Jesus fight over what Christmas is all about. At the end of the cartoon, a really messed up Cartman comes out and says Christmas is about presents.
That was a great episode! But not as good as the Christian Rock episode! In a poll, 70 percent of the Christians who saw that episode had there heart implode. The More You Know!
Edited by the Author.
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
Hah, yeah, I didnt say it was original, I just said it would make a good game. And yes, the episode where Santa and Jesus are singing carols did come to mind.
'oh yeah? he's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?'
They should have a Religon-based Klik Competition! Oh, that would be great.
Anyway: JESUS MARIO (coming in 2005) We ripped the Mario sprite and stuck Jesus' face on it so that Jesus Fanatics would buy it! He can walk on water, get the smite flower, and gain follower points! It's your fight to beat Satan and save the Sinner!
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
Anyone ever remember that game called Messiah, where you played as a little cherrub called Bob? Or that first person shooter called Requiem: Fallen Angel, where you were an angel who shot people. Both were pretty violent too, especially in Messiah when you could possess people and break their legs...
That's the kind of religious game we want.
It simply depends on how you put the religion in the games. In games like Trevor mentioned Christians get offended by how God is expressed. If the game has nothing to do with the bible but it's only described as such as an excuse for calling it a religious game, you can be sure it sucks.
P.S. Wasn't Jesus vs. Santa the first South Park episode?
P.P.S. I'm gonna do something to you if you start a Bible game comp
Santa vs Jesus wasn't the first South Park episode, it was a little 5 minute long cartoon Matt Stone and Trey Parker the creators of South Park created long before the series. It had all the principle characters, except Cartman and Kenny were the other way round. It's dead funny, I recommend anyone who hasn't seen it download it, unless you're a religious type who can't take a joke.
A DC Bible Game Comp would be sweet, I'd certainly enter that. I'd focus more on the aspects the Christians tend to forget about though, the extreme sex and violence. Obviously.
There's a game called Wrath 2, where you play God and you try to kill your misbehaving creations (cows, sheep, people). It, unlike its prequel, is kind of good.
Well, I think that reloigious games are a very good idea, because there is only ONE true religion, and that is CHRISTIANITY, and all other religions are false (including catholicism), and the Word of God and Jezus have to be spread, and if games can help that, it is very GOOD!
Wow, I check up on this place for the first time in months, and there's a *religious post*!!
<speachless clappy-hands joy>
If you want a deep plot, religions can be a great basis for those, because they almost always focus on an epic battle between good and evil. That and it saves you having to actually *think* about the plot, lol, so you get more time to work on building a half decent game!
Problem generally with making games based on Bible stories is that by their nature, they're not really *meant* to be based on human achievement, which makes them pretty pointless. A few examples:
-Abraham chases after marauders who've kidnapped his buddy and relative Lot. With a fraction of the soldiers, all looks helpless. Oh look! God helps, so they win!
-Egyptians chasing Hebrews, situation is bleak! Oh look! The red sea parts, the chariot wheels fall off, and every single egyptian soldier drowns! Success!
-Countless hugely one-sided battles against pagan nations. Oh look! God helps and they win! Yay!
-Saviour of the world appears! He refuses to become king, or fight, and deliberately gets himself killed. *Great* theme for a game.
-Jesus' apostles get banged up in jail! Do we get a cool rescue mission? An incredible escape attempt? No, an angel turns up, loosens their chains, and voila! What great gameplay!
Those are just some ickle examples, some more obscure than others. The point is that a game is a VIDEO ENTERTAINMENT DEVICE. There is nothing entertaining about playing a position where God sorts everything for you.
It may be cool in real life, or as a story, but not as an interactive game.
Some of the underlying plots of religions are incredible, I use them is stories all the time. But games? Not a good idea.
And no, trying to get converts through games is BAAAAD. Go out knock on peoples' doors instead, lol, works for me!
Why does everyone think the bibles nothing but Jesus. Its only half . In fact there are alot of fighting storys in the bible. A Samson game would be awsome. He is the strongest man ever and all... HAHA a Moses game would be hilarious you give plagues then split the ocean into and run away. A Jesus game is pointless he never sins.
what about that other guy? the one who kills that giant with his 'ball sack'. That's from the bible, right? :S
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
darmani64:
The only way that you could think you're right is if God told you. In which case, you'd be crazy not right.
So, the church told you something and they're automatically right. Talk about brainwashing.
Dude, you're retarded. You obviously know absolutly nothing about Christianity. Try reading a fucking bible you asstard, you might learn alot more than you do from your death metal stars that want to fuck satan up the ass.
Your the retard cussing then sayin to read the bible. You read the bible!
Stop cussing and saying the bible in the same sentence.
You sound like an anti-christ and a hypocrite. You should follow your own advise.
But I unto, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is Gods throane; nor by the earth; for it is his foot stool; neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yes,Yes; No,No; for what so ever is more than these is of the Evil One.
Matthew 5:34-37
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
I don't see why Gilgamesh felt so insulted to begin with. I think Darmani's question was perfectly harmless and relevant, because i must say, sometimes it seems like people are that way (like Darmani says).
Like my grandma, she's like "Adam & Eve are totally real and that's where we all come from because that's what the bible says", and i personally think it's logical to assume that Darwin's Theory is much more believable (and i believe in that theory fully).
What sounds more believable something thats been told in a book about the making of the world and the creator. Or something a guy made up in his mind that we were all made by rocks colliding. If the bibles full of crap then why did it last this long... So obvious people need use common sense and faith not to question the un questionable!
In my opinion Adam & Eve are what's made up. Darwin's Theory is based on scientific study. And it has nothing to do with rocks (afaik)..as far as i know this theory is about man evolving from a monkey walking on all 4 legs, and into our present state..
I dont know about you, but I dont wanna take the risk if heaven and hell is real with the chance to be staying in hell for eternity. Just readin about hell makes me wanna never die.
Why do you think it's the truth ? what do you have to back it up with ? that it's in an old book that a lot of people live by ? that fact that thousands stand by something doesn't make it true.
Besides, i think most of the "answers" the bible has are old assumptions from decades ago to explain stuff people didn't understand. This makes me believe more in science from the last couple of hundred years, than i do an old book.
(and to eliminate any doubts: These are just questions, i'm not critisizing you or anyone else)
>>Or something a guy made up in his mind that we were all made by rocks colliding.
Try the dedicated work of hundreds of scientific minds. Shitting on their memories doesn't make you very christian, does it?
>>Ok then tell me where the monkeys come from?
Monkies, as with all other modern primates, decended from earlier primates, which decended from the early mammals, which decended from small dinosaurs, which decended from mosasaurs, which decended from amphibious fish, which decended from regular primitive fish, which decended from primitive vertebrates.
>>Darwin only stated we look alike.
I don't know what people are feeding you, but Darwin certainly went into quite a bit more detail than that.
Ill just say what you said earlier. It's more believable. Are you gonna take the risk of going to hell forever, because you didnt have faith to not question it all and believe it. I know your theorys wrong simple, because if monkeys transformed into man then why are there still monkeys here and why havent we evolved again. I could make up something more believable than that crap. Heres a question for you. Why do think so many people beleive in it and have spiritual relationships with GOD if its all un true. Your problem is you dont have any faith. Just cause you havent seen a million dollars doesnt make it not real.
These men put a lot of effort into researching what they claimed so they have reasons for saying what they are. How do you know God even exists, and that he said this ? just because a bunch of priests or whatevers wrote it in a book doesn't make it true. What proof do you have that these people were in direct contact with "god" and got what they wrote from him ?
(note: i don't believe in heaven or hell, so i don't have to worry about going there. And i live a perfectly rich life even though i'm not a believer)
>>Are you gonna take the risk of going to hell forever, because you didnt have faith to not question it all and believe it.
You're talking about Pascal's wager, which is flawed. It's the desire to beleive to avoid an imagined consequence, not actual belief.
>>I know your theorys wrong simple, because if monkeys transformed into man then why are there still monkeys here and why havent we evolved again.
We did not evolve from monkeys. Monkeys, apes and humans all decended from a common ancestor. All animals alive today are equally evolved; even living precursors.
>>Heres a question for you. Why do think so many people beleive in it and have spiritual relationships with GOD if its all un true.
Because religion provides alleiviation from the fear of death. All humans fundamentally desire to be immortal, and the concept of an afterlife allows them to fool themselves. Ignorance, as they say, is bliss. People are eager to accept anything that will make them feel better abotu the human condition.
>>Your problem is you dont have any faith.
My 'problem' is that I would rather trust the sum of human knowledge than kicking civilisation back four hundred years because an ancient book of fairytales tells us to.
You cant prove me he doesnt existed so why are you arguing. Well I guess its your risk to find out when you die. Not a single priest wrote in the Bible. Priest have nothing to do with this. Their just teachers of God. Scientist are humans they make mistakes God doesnt. You can fathem about it hundreds of years, asking questions about logic and not believing having faith. You wont prove anything.
A book of fairy tales! Have you read it? Fairy tales can be proven wrong you cant say God isnt real strictly because you dont know. Why havent you answer my vertebrae question. You keep telling me what things evolved from yet you cant tell me what the first being came from. was Nothingness! My friend humans may have technology but yours seems more of a fairy tale than mine.
You cant answer me by asking a question. I cant prove it because no ones died and came back to tell it. I dont have to prove God is real you will know on the day of Judgement!
Eviscerator is correct. It is a fundamental principle that nothing unobserved can exist prior to evidence of its existance. Otherwise, it's perfectly valid for me to say that the sun is fuelled by eight enormous purple elephants on a treadmill.
>>Where did vertebrates come from then!
I only stopped because it was getting silly. Vertebrates came from invertebrates. Invertebrates came from simpler invertebrates, which came from (well, are) simple multi-celled organisms. Massive shock -- these came from single-celled organisms! If you have a particular question on the subject I'd be happy to answer it.
Oh my god! Well informed Christians I don't mind, but you, Yami, I can't stand.
Well done to EvisceratoR and Radix for adding some sense into this conversation.
I'd just like to add something to what Radix has said about evolution.
'...and why havent we evolved again.'
Evolution takes thousands of years. What you are saying is how come we havent moved on from the point that we're at. In which case I will say it simply, we have moved on from the place that we WERE at, and we are currently moving onto the place we WILL be at. It's not like Pokemon where you are suddenly at one stage then suddenly at the next. We are currently evolving, as our bodies are reacting to the new environments we are building for ourselves.
'Your expecting me to believe a group of men over what God says.'
A group of men wrote the Bible, not God. A group of men AND women have done scientific research into Darwin's theory of evolution.
You are clearing a very brainwashed individual, and are welcome to all the 'faith' you want. You, and presumably all of the other religious people are not going to change your mind because of what you read on the internet. Just as every non-religious person here will not suddenly 'praise the lord' after reading your ill informed, unstructured responses.
If there were an official debate between both sides here I would put my money on the athiest team.
Good day.
'oh yeah? he's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?'
Since science is theory so believers of it (should) accept it doesn't have to be true. You're claiming the bible is the truth so the source has to be god, and you can't prove it is, so it's perfectly valid for us to doubt what you're saying.
Men wrote the Bible. What they said was not their oppinions but what God told them to put! If anything I say to you makes sense let it be this! ANY OF YOU PROVE ME THAT THE BIBLE IS WRONG ANYTHIGN IN IT! You like the other scientist will only have theorys. Those theorys all have flaws. Tell me what flaw is there in the perfection of Gods words!
I think it's pretty flawed to say the men who wrote the bible had their info directly from god when you can't prove it. That makes it a theory just like science.
[i]I cant prove its right? If you cant prove it wrong then where is there to doubt it not being right![/i]
That's like saying someone is guilty before they're proven not to be.
Our society is built on christian principles, therefore no-one is guilty until proven so, therefore god doesn't exist before it's proven that he does.
Im going to bed now its funny how you say it has flaws yet you cant prove anything being wrong in it. You say no proff but you cant prove there is a thing wrong so shut up.
>>ANY OF YOU PROVE ME THAT THE BIBLE IS WRONG ANYTHIGN IN IT!
I like a challenge. Too bad you had to ask this.
Take fish. Take noah's flood. It's generally agreed that noah couldn't have taken two of every fish aboard (not only is there no mention of it; it would have been technologically impossible for him), so it's taken that all the fish in the world survived the flood because hey, they're fish, right? Fishies looove water.
However, he have both freshwater and saltwater fish. While some species can survive varying salinity, not all can. If there was a flood, we should not have any fish today that can't survive in both salt and fresh water.
(Oh, should I mention that the flood event in the bible is a concatenation of two different flood myths?)
If you need another example I've got them up the wazoo.
i think it's funny how you say god exists and that what's in the bible is what he said when you can't prove it. And saying stuff like "shut up" isn't very christian i think...doesn't the bible say you're supposed to accept people who are different ?
apart from that, it sounds like something a person who can't convince us would say in frustration. Why can't you just accept that god's existence is a theory just like science ?
Thats the whole point in Gods ways. To make it to heaven you must believe him and have faith to prove you are worthy in his kingdom. He has nothing to prove who he is simple because you dont believe in him. If you dont believe in anything happening after you die then what does it hurt to believe that God is real. Your just scared he's real so you make up theorys an excuses so you dont have to change your way of life.
A fish is a fish. Where did it say every race of fish.. Example: A dog is a dog no matter what breed.
How can you say not very Christian when you dont even believe in it??? The funny thing is you sayin except people for who they are. Jesus went telling the great news. He didnt except people who lived un Godly (none believers).
just because i'm not christian doesn't mean i can't know what's christian-like..
that's like saying a democrat can't say communism is bad, just because he's not a communist.
>>A fish is a fish. Where did it say every race of fish.. Example: A dog is a dog no matter what breed.
Is there a competition for stupidity that I'm unaware of, or is there truly a patron diety of pwnage?
There are thousands of species of fish. If I kill all the whiting, then a hundred years later there still will not be any whiting. If all the fish that cannot survive varying salinity levels are exposed to a flood of homogeneous water, all these fish will die. There should therefore not be any such fish today. Yet there are.
The dog analogy is incorrect: all domestic dogs are of the same species (canis lupus familiaris), but of different breeds. Fish do have different breeds within species, but I'm talking about species, not breeds.
Still, a dog is a dog, but if I kill all the german sheperds today there won't be any tomorrow.
When I wake up and see life and how everything is. Then to see beautiful landscapes then I realise God is real. Because if he isnt then neither am I. If you ever have read the bible you feel chills. The feeling that you cant explain.
"Got shot 5 times still breathing, living proof theres a God if you need a reason" Tupac
Is there a sign next to the "don't step on the grass" sign that says "made in heaven by god" ? just because it's there doesn't prove it was made by god.
And getting shot 5 times and still breathing proves he's lucky and the bullets didn't hit any vital organs, it has nothing to do with god.
And if the world was flooded, the water would mix and there would be only 1 kind of water, so fish not adapted to that particular type of water would die and they wouldn't be there....and we still ahve 2 kinds of water, so why is that ?
>>Hold on Radix! He flooded the world. Fish live in the water. Theres no reason to bring fish on a boat when theres water. Stupidity....
I covered that. Reread the post. Some saltwater fish cannot live in freshwater and vice-versa.
n/a
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
4th August, 2004 at 08:19:06 -
hot christ, you two (radix and eviscerator), i didn't realize dead horse flogging was such an art. this is a stupid argument, and, like all arguments about religion, it's pointless. yami's clearly not going to be blinded by science no matter what you say, so give it a rest. let him have his silly beliefs and leave it be.
yeah you're right..but you know, in the heat of battle and stuff.. ofcourse Yami can believe whatever he wants, just like everyone else has the right to do so.. so sorry for wasting database space or something
good point....i dunno if i'm sorry then cuz even though i knew all along it was pointless, it was still, like radix said, a challenge (good thing i stick with what i say .............................................)
n/a
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
4th August, 2004 at 09:13:11 -
it's only a challenge if your opponent isn't Spastic of the Year 2002.
i read in a sig somewhere that you shouldn't argue with an idiot, he'll just drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...so i guess we can end this with me thinking i've been hit repeatedly with it, and yami can think the same about me..
Heh, Im stupid Radix... Tell me this what if my fairy tale is right and when you die and go to hell. Why would anyone take a risk not to be a Christian. Simply because a man said a theory that you could fathem more. Your the retarded fool doomed and damned to a devils hell. No matter how smart you think you are.
I don't see not being christian as a risk, i see it as a choice.
It appears you can't include religion in anythnig without offending someone, which kinda sucks. People should be open minded and not get jumpy unless there's a direct attack on their religion.
You werent attacking my relegion by saying I cant prove Gods real... Radix wasnt attacking either when he said the bible is a book of faiy tales. You just believe what you want Im tired of talking to lost hopeless souls.
Sheesh, you guys are really going at it. Some people go have a thing called sleep and lives you know.
Yami:
Your the retard cussing then sayin to read the bible. You read the bible!
Stop cussing and saying the bible in the same sentence.
You sound like an anti-christ and a hypocrite. You should follow your own advise.
So I break a few rules you jackass. Nobody is perfect. At least I do the christian thing and admit that I make mistakes. Now, your obviously sticking your foot in your mouth, hold on.
Yami: A book of fairy tales!
How are you gonna sit here and tell me that I shouldn't swear, and your calling the whole thing just one big fairy tale? It's called history smart guy.
EvisceratoR:I think it's pretty flawed to say the men who wrote the bible had their info directly from god when you can't prove it.
The way Yami says it sounds wrong. A basic christian belief is that The bible was written by god trough man. Sounds a little odd, but how would man predict the future? Read through the bible, and 100% of all predictions have come true, such as the prediction of credit cards in revelation.
Radix: Take fish. Take noah's flood. It's generally agreed that noah couldn't have taken two of every fish aboard (not only is there no mention of it; it would have been technologically impossible for him), so it's taken that all the fish in the world survived the flood because hey, they're fish, right? Fishies looove water.
However, he have both freshwater and saltwater fish. While some species can survive varying salinity, not all can. If there was a flood, we should not have any fish today that can't survive in both salt and fresh water.
Say what you want about it, but this event actually happend. Even if you aren't christian, look at all other text and they all have a flood story. Even some Native American writings and African and all sorts of stuff. Pretty well known for a fairy tale huh?
EvisceratoR:i think it's funny how you say god exists and that what's in the bible is what he said when you can't prove it.
He's got a point there. Christians have a thing called faith. But most of the major reseachers that research the evolutionary theory end up in the end having to be created by something. Well lets see, humans came from monkeys, monkeys came from an ameoba, and an ameoba came from...? Where? The big bang? You have more of a chance of a torando going through a junkyard and making a perfectly constructed airplane than of that happening.
Radix:There are thousands of species of fish. If I kill all the whiting, then a hundred years later there still will not be any whiting. If all the fish that cannot survive varying salinity levels are exposed to a flood of homogeneous water, all these fish will die. There should therefore not be any such fish today. Yet there are.
Compare these things to humans. We call different colors and styles species of fish, but then we have the same thing in humans. Blacks, Whites, Asians, Red Heads, Blonds.
Nattress:let him have his silly beliefs and leave it be.
Just wondering, what do you believe in?
Yami:Heh, Im stupid Radix... Tell me this what if my fairy tale is right and when you die and go to hell. Why would anyone take a risk not to be a Christian. Simply because a man said a theory that you could fathem more. Your the retarded fool doomed and damned to a devils hell. No matter how smart you think you are.
You tell me swearing is bad. At least I'm not telling all of them to go to hell.
EvisceratoR:It appears you can't include religion in anythnig without offending someone, which kinda sucks. People should be open minded and not get jumpy unless there's a direct attack on their religion.
Yeah I got kinda jumpy before, but like I said, I don't like it being compared with brainwashing. But don't talk about open mindedness. People are open and close minded in many sorts of ways so you can't call anyone open or close minded.
Anyways, back to brainwashing. People seem to think that christians are brainwashing everyone, but thats simply not true. Go do some research on subliminal messages and see how much are geared towards satanism and stuff. So how do you know that if your opinions are really your own? It's kinda creepy.
DUDE GILGA READ THE WHOLE STORY RADIX CALLED THE BIBLE A BOOK OF FAIRY TALES I WAS SAYIN THAT AND TRYING TO PROVING HIM WRONG. AND IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN GOD THEN YOU ARE GOIN TO HELL THATS JUST THE TRUTH IM NOT TELLING HIM TO GO TO HELL. I TOLD THE TRUTH SAYIN THATS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THEY DONT WAKE UP.
You shouldn't try to scare people into the religeon, sheesh. What are you, catholic? If your trying to tell people about the religeon, the last thing you want to say is "Your going to hell!"
If your trying to prove him wrong, don't go and say "Yeah, in my book of fairy tales..." You need to let us actually know that's not what you believe. On the internet, we are robbed of basic speach techniques, such as speed, tone, pauses, and spellcheck. How was I supposed to know you were being sarcastic.
Your obviously trying to convert these two, but your going at it all wrong. From what you are saying, I wouldn't listen to you either, so your obviously taking a step backwards. Let's just calm down, and give it a rest. I'm sure that if you were a good christian, you would realize that God will handle it, and that right now your trying to do it for yourself, not God. So can we all get along now?
on page 6
Radix said "My 'problem' is that I would rather trust the sum of human knowledge than kicking civilisation back four hundred years because an ancient book of fairytales tells us to."
So if it was a book that only exists because the people who wrote it wanted to create a religion, so they could believe that they will live after death, it would be alright?
You will not convert anyone TALKING LIKE THIS! Your religion is not needed here. Oh, and if I'm going to hell, at least I won't be in the same place as you fovever...
i believe that if i eventually end up having to face up to god, he'll appreciate the fact that i spent my life trying to be a good person and fair to others, and his creations (i call them his creations cuz if i was facing up to him, that would mean he exists) more than how much i believed in him. Besides, if god is such a loving person (Jesus supposedly loves us all, so god must do so too), he would forgive me for not believing in him.
First off, I didn't know this would lead into nine pages!
In response to those people from page 6: I feel that there is a God. The Exosist (spelled wrong, I know, shut up) is a true story. The only thing that protected that kid (who was really a boy, not a girl ) was a priest, a Bible, and a cross. My Priest filmed an exosisem (shut up), and it was really creepy. Again, a Priest, a Bible, and a Cross protected this lady.
TO THE JINGLE JAIL WITH THE NON BELIVER!
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
i personally think it was the belief in getting the patient well that helped, and something in the prist's mind helped. Not a cross and whatever.
Actually i believe in god, in my own strange way. I don't believe there's some entity who's the controller of stuff. I think that maybe an alien race thought it would be fun to create a little experiment so they created the planets n stuff which resulted in lots of things, and eventually humans.
I've always dreamed of making a computer program that would have single celled organisms to begin with, and then make them evolve and see what happens.
So in conclusion, i think humans (and every other species) is a kind of a robot because living things are too complicated to have come out of nothing.
Jesus loves everyone if you dont love him he wont forgive you. If you dont repent. Plus if everybody repent when they died no one would go to hell. You can be a good person ,but if you dont believe in God why would he forgive someone who turn his back to his face. I didnt mean to be mean but when someone spits at God I wont let them get away with it without saying something.
Jesus answered, " I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
John 3:5
I think that mankind is a freak happening, that we only exist because on this one planet, the things needed to create life happened by pure luck.
Hi!
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
4th August, 2004 at 16:16:27 -
"You have more of a chance of a torando going through a junkyard and making a perfectly constructed airplane than of that happening."
are you a Critchon fan!?
someone asked me what i believe in. the answer is nothing. i'm comfortable with mortality and i don't need farty beliefs to cushion the harsh fact that i'm going to die. something else: if, as a Christian, you use the "well what made the Amoeba then?!" argument, you're just digging yourself a hole, because we can ask the samre thing of God: where did God come from? to which i always get some bollocks like "God is infinite", or "God transcends time". what was he doing before he made the universe then? sat on his arse playing marbles?
yami, you're an idiot. i like Eviscerator's argument - if we live our lives as good people, is God going to give a shit if we didn't believe in him? as he is supposed to be all-loving, i reckon i stand a good chance of being forgiven in the unlikely event that i'm proven wrong. and even if i'm not forgiven, hell doesn't sound like such a bad place. at least there won't be any Christians there.
God is a super natural being he always is and will be. You people keep talking about hell and other people you dislike wont be there and that makes it ok. The last thing on your mind is gonna be about someone its gonna be why didnt I listen. Pete I just stated words from Jesus saying you must be saved to enter heaven.
"jesus loves all" <-- i don't see any conditions there, so why do you have to believe ? that's just silly.. that's like telling a kid you love it, but only if it does the dishes.
Edited by the Author.
Penguin > good question! maybe another god made god, and another one made him, and another etc. etc. etc.
Can this thread be locked up. I see no reason to argue anymore. Sometimes things are meant not to be answered. So why question them when if you get the answer it only makes you question that as well. Either you believe or you dont. Not gonna post here again its pointless.
Re: where did God come from. I don't think he had to be created, he was just something that is inherent in everything. Like another dimension. I mean, where did all the particles that made the Big Bang come from? Why did gravity suddenly exist? I don't know the answers to that (I'm sure some super boffin somewhere in the world has a therory, though) and to be perfectly honest, I don't care. It's not like I'm going to look up in the sky tomorrow and see a planet appear out of nothing.
And as for what happens when I die, how am I supposed to know that? It's all theories, nobody's come back from the dead and told us how nice it is in Heaven, or complain because the ice cubes kept melting in their martinis in Hell. I'm just going to try and live my life to the best, keep morals etc. and if nothing comes out of it at the end, then fine. It's not like I wasn't happy enough in life
Pete: hell doesn't sound like such a bad place. at least there won't be any Christians there.
Hell is what ever you don't want, your greatest fears, everything you hate, Heaven is the opposite.
People have a misconstrued (Hope that's a word) view on heaven and hell. They seem to have that vision of hell being just a bunch of fire sitting around. So, your hell might be sitting locked up in a room being badgered by christians and with nothing you can do about it.
It's fine and dandy if you want to believe that, so go ahead. You obviously don't care enough, and if we keep this up, Yami's gonna cry.
Pete Nattress Cheesy Bits img src/uploads/sccheesegif
Registered 23/09/2002
Points 4811
4th August, 2004 at 19:24:11 -
kind of labouring the point anyway, since i don't believe in heaven or hell. but by your logic, christians DO go to hell! and i like how you assume you're right as well. what if christianity is the wrong religion after all!? allah may not be as forgiving as your god.
A man dies and finds out he's in hell
Someone walks up to him and asks whats wrong?
The man say well im in hell
The guy replies its okay here do you like gambling?
The man says aw yes I love gambling
The guy replies then your gonna like mondays, because we gamble all day
The man goes oh thats great
The guy replies do you like smoking? Then your gonna like tuesdays
The man says aw man its not that bad here
The guy replies if like drugs? Then your gonna like wednesdays
The man starts to get excited
The guy replies do you like getting drunk because we drink til we throw up and drink some more on thursedays
The man says Wow this place is great
The guy continued with smokin weed on fridays and sniffing crack on saturdays
THEN finaly the guy ask the man if he was gay
The man replies well no
Then your not gonna like sundays
Gilg:
Say what you want about it, but this event actually happend. Even if you aren't christian, look at all other text and they all have a flood story. Even some Native American writings and African and all sorts of stuff. Pretty well known for a fairy tale huh?
As I said, the flood story in the bible is a combination of two earlier flood myths. There was never any catastrphic earth-covering flood. There is a multitude of evidence (and I'm talking about a LOT) that disproves this possibility. The fish thing is one of them; go back and actually read my post this time. I'm happy to supply more if need be.
Compare these things to humans. We call different colors and styles species of fish, but then we have the same thing in humans. Blacks, Whites, Asians, Red Heads, Blonds.
There's a difference between breeds and species, as I said. Species is the lowest division of the orders of classification. Generally, different species are either incapable or generally unable to interbreed.
Breeds are different groups within a species; the term is very informal. While yes, there are different types of humans, we are all of the same species. I can't believe you even tried to argue this point.
Eviscerator:
i believe that if i eventually end up having to face up to god, he'll appreciate the fact that i spent my life trying to be a good person and fair to others, and his creations (i call them his creations cuz if i was facing up to him, that would mean he exists) more than how much i believed in him. Besides, if god is such a loving person (Jesus supposedly loves us all, so god must do so too), he would forgive me for not believing in him.
Yami:
... Thats the most stupid thing Ive ever heard of. Obviously you nothing of hell.
What's the difference between that and Pascal's Wager, which you yourself suggested? At least Eviscerator is listening to his own logic rather than acting out of fear. There are multiple religions, and all of them claim to have contact with a god or gods. They all have plenty of dogma, there's nothing that discriminates christianity over any of the others. For your faith to be correct, so too must all the others: a single diety might choose to appear to different people in different ways according to their circumstance and culture. Dogma therefore has no relevance, and only the deprecation of our own 'god-given' faculties would be a sin. The most anyone can do is what they think is right, because plenty of people are ready to tell them they're wrong, no matter who you are.
(Of course Yami, sometimes people are genuinely wrong)
"You have more of a chance of a torando going through a junkyard and making a perfectly constructed airplane than of that happening."
I can't tell if Pete is quoting the thread or somewhere else, but I feel like answering this anyway so people don't get the wrong idea.
I won't bother investing any time though, here's a bottled response:
Order doesn't spontaneously form from disorder. A tornado passing through a junkyard would never assemble a 747.
Source:
Hoyle, Fred, 1983. The Intelligent Universe. New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, pp. 18-19.
Response:
1. This claim is irrelevant to the theory of evolution itself, since evolution does not occur via assembly from individual parts, but rather via selective gradual modifications to existing structures. Order can and does result from such evolutionary processes.
2. Hoyle applied his analogy to abiogenesis, where it is more applicable. However, the general principle behind it is wrong. Order arises spontaneously from disorder all the time. The tornado itself is an example of order arising spontaneously. Something as complicated as people would not arise spontaneously from raw chemicals, but there is no reason to believe that something as simple as a self-replicating molecule could not form thus. From there, evolution can produce more and more complexity.
Gilg:
Hell is what ever you don't want, your greatest fears, everything you hate, Heaven is the opposite.
People have a misconstrued (Hope that's a word) view on heaven and hell. They seem to have that vision of hell being just a bunch of fire sitting around. So, your hell might be sitting locked up in a room being badgered by christians and with nothing you can do about it.
Actually, there's a pretty specific definition of heaven and hell in the latin bible (like, pre-king-james-mangling). 'Hell' means 'hole'. According to the bible, when peopole die, they just hang around in the ground, their spirits don't go flying off to heaven or whatever. When god's kingdom descends after the apocalypse, all the nice people are resurrected so they can sit around in heaven and masturbate all day or whatever you're supposed to do there. All the naughty people stay in the ground.
I can only tell you whats right. I cant force you to believe in God if you dont. If you deny God he will surely deny you to his kingdom. There are actualy documents that everything in the bible happened. Scientist have proven that Jesus and God are real. If you dont believe me, but you will if a scientist says it. Then look it up, I will pray that you change your mind all of you that disagree with my words. Im not perfect but thank god my lord Jesus is!
even if there is proof that jesus existed, that doesn't mean there was anything godly surrounding him. nobody knows if the bible is true or not, and since it was written a few millenia ago, they never will.
"Say you're hanging from a huge cliff at the top of mt. everest and a guy comes along and says he'll save you, and proceeds to throw religious pamphlets at you while simultaniously giving a sermon." - Dustin G
LOL @ Radix's last comment. I thought masturbation was frowned upon by Catholicism?
Scientists have NOT proven that Jesus is real - they've calculated a probability of him existing (I think it was about 300 to 1? Although I'm probably quite wrong there). And we don't believe stuff if a scientist says it - there are plenty of stories where scientists have said some wild and outrageous stuff, some believed, some not. Often scientists who made a very plausible and very true theory were ignored because they didn't follow what was believed at the time (Mendel and his genetics theory springs to mind). But no scientists that I know about have ever proved the existence of God with any actual evidence, so perhaps you should stop being so desperate in trying to win the argument and/or change our minds.
Radix: As I said, the flood story in the bible is a combination of two earlier flood myths. There was never any catastrphic earth-covering flood. There is a multitude of evidence (and I'm talking about a LOT) that disproves this possibility. The fish thing is one of them; go back and actually read my post this time. I'm happy to supply more if need be.
Oh sorry I didn't read that first part, my bad.
But the fish part is irrelevant. Fish obviously live all over the world, and including in that time. So, if fish can swim, why take them? Same as sharks, shrimp and all that stuff. So therefore, you are taking the animal thing way too literaly.
Radix: There's a difference between breeds and species, as I said. Species is the lowest division of the orders of classification. Generally, different species are either incapable or generally unable to interbreed.
Breeds are different groups within a species; the term is very informal. While yes, there are different types of humans, we are all of the same species. I can't believe you even tried to argue this point.
If we aren't different species, then what are we? We obviously aren't different breeds, for the fact that we didn't breed to get black and white. If you can't believe that I'm arguing this point, why are we even arguing at all?
Kris you may not ever know if its true, but you will never be able to say its false. The bible is set up where it cant be said it did or didnt happen. The main set up is faith and if theres no proof it wasnt godly then whose to say its not godly. Its so obvious the bible makes you decide what to believe is the truth.
But the fish part is irrelevant. Fish obviously live all over the world, and including in that time. So, if fish can swim, why take them?
Okay, I'll explain it again. There are different kinds of fish. sOme only live in saltwater, and some who can only survive in freshwater. Some can tolerate both, but there are many species of fish that, if you change the salinity of the water even slightly, will die. Therefore, if there was a flood, the entire world would have been covered in one large body of water, that would have to be either salty or fresh, right? While some fish might survive this, those fish that can only survive a certain level of salinity would have died. However, today these fish still exist, so there could not have been a flood. Is that clear enough?
If we aren't different species, then what are we? We obviously aren't different breeds, for the fact that we didn't breed to get black and white. If you can't believe that I'm arguing this point, why are we even arguing at all?
I can't believe you would argue something so obvious - this should really simple to understand. There are humans in different geographic locations with different features; this is due to environmental effects and isolation from other genepools. And we did breed to get different races, although not deliberately. For evample, higher melanin content in the skin of africans would protect them from skin cancer, while further north, what are now white europeans would have lived in glaciated areas during the ice ages, and melanin would not have been a contributing factor to reproduction. The two groups never came in contact, so there was no interbreeding and the racial traits developed in isolation.
All humans are of the same species (Homo Sapiens Sapiens), there is no genetic difference, and we are both able and willing to reproduce together. Telling different ethnicities that they belong to another species is good way to get various fluids beaten out of you.
Radix God can do anything even what you think is impossible isnt to him. Another thing when someone ask who made God. He wouldnt be the creator of life if something created him now would he. Dustin what I meant was there are theorys that Jesus lived. Another thing im wondering how can people thousands of years ago write in a book about prophecys that have happened if God didnt tell them anything.
Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
5th August, 2004 at 02:02:18 -
This is becoming a very long post. 10 Pages . Religious games are dumb.
Well, what a strange thing to stumble upon first joining. Religion in gaming...bah. Anyways it seems to me that all this mess started just because Yami stated that you shouldnt say cuss words in front of the bible and then in the next post he stated his beliefs, against Eviscerator. Maybe it was a little agrresive, but i'm sure it upset him somewhat when you put his belief down. Besides every single one of you went about this using harshness and basically just trying to make the other side look stupid for believing what they believe. This argument is obviously not going to solve a thing and everyone will walk away from it with the same beliefs they started with, so why even bother having it? This is argument is only creating hatred between the two sides.
ps. Yami...dont tell people theyre goin to Hell, it only makes things worse.
Radix God can do anything even what you think is impossible isnt to him.
Yami, you're hardly worth responding to. 'God did it' isn't an argument. If god created the universe, then he created a universe of laws and logic. Romans 1:20 says that God is to be "understood from what has been made." If he acts contrary to laws that he himself made, that makes him a deveiver. Lying is naughty. God is all good. Etcetera.
Another thing im wondering how can people thousands of years ago write in a book about prophecys that have happened if God didnt tell them anything.
The act of retrodiction allows prophesies to be written after the fact. The bible has been rewritten many times, so you can't claim the bible in its current state is as it was when its parts were first written. The bible is also pretty vague, like all Nostrodamus' crap.
Many of it's prophesies are wrong, too, so any that apparently come true cannot be taken as proof. For example:
- Joshua said that God would, without fail, drive out the Jebusites and Canaanites, among others [Josh. 3:9-10]. But those tribes were not driven out [Josh. 15:63, 17:12-13].
- Isaiah 17:1-3 says Damascus will cease to be a city and be deserted forever, yet it is inhabited still.
- Ezekiel said Egypt would be made an uninhabited wasteland for forty years [29:10-14], and Nebuchadrezzar would plunder it [29:19-20]. Neither happened.
Ok, well, just because youre sayin that the scripture is wrong...i have to say this.
First off, Joshua never said that God told him that he was going to do it, Joshua just told them that as a kind of a pep talk really, God himself never stated he would do it, and besides, everything turned out well for them, at least for then.
Number 2. Damascus is inhabited now yes, but i didnt see anywhere about it saying it would be destroyed FOREVER.
Number 3. Well, God said it would become unihabitated for 40 years, and theres no record of it NOT happening anywhere, so it probably happened. I'm also sure Nebuchanezzer did plunder, but sense God said it would happen there was really no use in later saying it happened, cause the event wouldn't have affected israel or the Jews at all.
This has gotten to a point where it's stupid to continue arguing. No-one is going to pursade anyone to believe anything different from what they do now.
I have some stuff to say though but i won't, it would just prolong this thing :-/
1.
9 And Joshua said unto the children of Israel, Come hither, and hear the words of the LORD your God.
10 And Joshua said, Hereby ye shall know that the living God is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Hivites, and the Perizzites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites.
"hear the words of the LORD your God" is pretty clear.
2.
1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
2 The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
3 The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the LORD of hosts.
3.
Ezekiel predicted that Nebuchadnezzar would plunder the island city of Tyre, and raze it permanently to the bare rock. Nebby died roughly 560 BC, and Tyre didn't fall till 332 BC. There is supporting evidence for this.
1 Joshua just said that because he knew that unless he said God said it they wouldn't listen. There is no record anywhere of God telling him that he said it
2. and Damascus is no longer a kingdom is it?
3. Wait, wait...i thought we were talking about Egypt. And tell me plundering means stealing does it not? It has nothing to do with destroying the city.
1.
So Joshua is a manipulating lyer. If he's going to lie about god talking to him then, why should anything else he says be treated as a prophesy?
2.
Ceasing is ceasing, no matter what it's called (and keep in mind this is a translation). Since two lines earlier it calls it a 'ruinous heap,' the context is pretty clear.
3.
You claimed he 'probably' did it, because there's no evidence of it not happening (the lack of evidence is not an argument, by the way). I'm giving you an example that is almost identical, where we have firm proof that Ezekiel is a dirty, dirty fibber. Although, there's probably evidence of him not doing anything to Egypt, I just couldn't find any with a quick search.
1 Well, if theres only proof he lied once...then that really cant be considered being a liar. He was human, he made mistakes.
2. well, are you 100% that the same Damascus that exists today was the one that existed then? If so, please show me evidence, besides it never really specified that it couldn't be rebuilt. I'm pretty sure it was, but not 100% positive.
3. Yes well, how does t prove hes a dirty dirty fibber. He said it would be plundered by Nebby, and I'm sure it was. But again it really woudn't have any affect on Israel or the Jews so it just wasn't brought up again i'm sure.
1.
The point is, that's an example of a prophesy, said by a prophet and recorded in the bible, not coming true. You're being selective by saying "oh, well that one didn't happen, so he must've been lying that time and it doesn't count" If you could do this all the time, then if 99% of the prophesies in the book don't come true, you can claim the 1% that did constitutes biblical validity. It don't.
2.
The onus is on you to supply evidence that it was rebuilt, not me to prove that it was. Regardless, cessation is cessation. If Damascus was destroyed, then picked up again elsewhere, then it never really ceased. Besides, Damascus is still in Syria. Who the hell packs up a city and moves it a few kilometers away?
3. Tyre was not plundered by Nebuchadnezzar. Neither was Egypt. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant. Again, this is an instance of a prophet who made an incorrect prophesy. You can't pick and choose.
I'm glad I only picked three false prophesies, otherwise we'd be here all week.
1. Joshua, was NOT a prophet. He was selected to lead the jews into the promised land. He was supposed to be a leader not a prophet. If i felt like it now i could give you a list of prophecies alone that were fuliflled just in the coming of Jesus and his life. Now if you dont believe in the bible the prophecies wouldn't mean anything to you but it would prove it doesnt contradict itself 99% of the time.
2. You, probably couldn't find any, and besides, I really am kinda sleepy and don't feel like looking for evidence right now. Maybe later. Besides someone else probably just named another city Damascus. I'll look it up when I'm not so sleepy.
3.Dude, you can't prove they weren't plundered, it wasn't really important at all so it just isn't recorded.
Besides it really is a pointless debate because I'm no religious expert so I can't just shoot a bunch of scriptures at you. You can't just start taking scriptures out of context and start shooting stuff off. Alot of answers in the bible arent found anywhere near the initial problem and i do not feel like searching the whole bible for a few irrelevent occurences. Anyways, I'm sleepy so I'm going to sleep.
PS could you mail me a link or post a link where you're getting all these "false prophecies" from. I'd really like to check it out.
I'm not prepaired to let you cop out, but sweet dreams.
I didn't get those from a website, but I did find
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
which is a pretty good source and contains 173 instances of false prophesies, misquotes and broken promises from god.
1. Anyone who talks to a god is a prophet. Look it up.
2. I've looked up the history of Damascus. It was not destroyed, and is in fact one of the oldest inhabited cities on earth. If you don't believe me, check the city's website http://www.damascus-online.com/history.htm
3. Dude, you can't prove they weren't plundered, it wasn't really important at all so it just isn't recorded
Dude, the history is tangled up with Alexander the Great, who was very fucking important. A lot of study has gone into the area.
All those promises that were seemed to be broken arent. The first one on that site says. God says that if Adam eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then the day that he does so, he will die. But later Adam eats the forbidden fruit (3:6) and yet lives for another 930 years (5:5). 2:17
Now I dont feel like arguing about everyone on the site to prove their wrong but I will on this one. If Adam didnt eat from the fruit he would of never died. When he does he is able to die and which he does when he was 930. The day he eat the fruit his imortal self died and he became mortal.
Jesus answered him, "It is written:'Do not put the Lord your God to test.'
Matthew 4:7
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written:'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.
Matthew 4:10
Radix all your doing is testing God by questioning him.
1. Joshua...sigh. Ok, he said that indeed the Jebusites would be driven out, but they weren't. indeed he also said that the Canaanites would be driven out, but they weren't. Tell me...do those two tribes still exist in the promised land today? If not then they were driven out...they never really specified when they would be driven out.
2. After several battles, the Assyrian armies managed to reach the Syrian coast and in 841 BC, Damascus was besieged and taken by King Hadad Niari III.It is most probable that the remains of the Aramaean town lie buried under the eastern part of the old walled city.
This plainly states it was destroyed.
Sovereignty over Damascus passed from the Assyrians to the Chaldaeans (Neo-Babylonians) under King Nebuchadnezzar in 572 BC.
This plainly states that Nebby took it. Case closed. i took that right off the sight you gave me if you dont believe it look it up.
Did I not already say God would'nt be creater of life if something created him. He has always existed and always will. Everything has been created by one, GOD. You have been made by the hands and eyes of God to be different like everyone else.
Yami, you have some of the worst logical skills I have ever seen.
"There are actualy documents that everything in the bible happened."
False. And keep in mind that writing isn't always accurate... if I wrote down that Turkey was hit by a giant meteor in 2000 and someone discovers my paper, does that mean that Turkey was actually hit by a giant meteor? Speaking of which, it would be funny if archeologists found a copy of The Onion and believed that it was facual evidence.
Lazarus: The person who did the screenplay for The Exorcist also did the screenplay for The Amityville Horror (which was based off a "true" story). It turns out that the writer made up a bunch of crap for The Amityville Horror and got sued by the people who were "affected" by the Amityville Horror (which turned out to be a hoax).
Pete: So true about the "Where did God come from?" question.
Radix: You've had the most intelligent arguements in this thread, and you actualyl research what you're talking about. Congratulations.
And doesn't anyone else see what religion really is? It's our need for a purpose and for an explanation on things that don't make sense. That's why many ancient religions had gods of fire and air and water... they didn't know how they were created or what created natural disasters (such as volcanoes), so they made up a legend to explain them.
"Tyre was not plundered by Nebuchadnezzar. Neither was Egypt. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant. Again, this is an instance of a prophet who made an incorrect prophesy. You can't pick and choose."
"Dude, you can't prove they weren't plundered, it wasn't really important at all so it just isn't recorded."
Uh... actually, they were important. Tyre was one of the most important cities in Mesopotamia (I forgot to who exactly... I think it was the Neo-Babylonians). Egypt was also pretty important too, though they were known to falsify records (the treaty between the Hittites and Egypt, for example).
EDIT: The Christian God is supposed to be omnipotent, which is actually impossible. Can God create a stone so large that he himself cannot lift it?
actually i meant it wasn't important to Israel because they had already been conquered at this time and the whole bible basically focuses on Israel's history, so these events wouldn't have been important for them at all.
You have to look up answers to back fire answers in the bible why dont you speak your opinion once without including information from someone elses opinion thats not even yours. If you keep arguing and having to find something to prove Im wrong then whose to say your even proving your opinion if its not from you. Dont argue about ideas that arent from you that you looked up. Anyone that argues with me is only arguing to prove me wrong proving what I just said. Your only arguing, because you dont know so you have to find a site that hates the bible by making up false lies to prove your point. Which was something you didnt know it was until you looked it up.
You are wrong. I have chosen to follow God because it simply makes more sense to me that someone created all this then for all this to be created by nothing. Scientists aren't even sure about their theories that's why they are only theories. Even the common christian is 100% positive about their beliefs, if they are a true christian that is. It is not a crutch, it is far from a crutch. I have not "sprained my mind as you say" I have chosen to do this of my own free will without any assistance from anyone else. I have used logic, and like i said logic tells me there is no way that the "big bang" could have ever occured because it really just makes no sense. Not everything in the Bible makes sense either, I agree but it has answers that scientists don't, which basically means to me that until it can be proven wrong, and be proven that God doesn't exist, I will believe it, and that is just the way it is.
You lied to me, Jesus! o_O Kidding...
Anyway...
@Yami: "If you don't believe in God, you finally live when you die. If you believe, you live forever..." -Quote from a Priest. THERE ARE YOUR LITTLE CHICKEN NUGGETS OF THOUGHT! USE THEM WISELY!
Fine Garbage since 2003.
CURRENT PROJECT:
-Paying off a massive amount of debt in college loans.
-Working in television.
A religious game can be done, but it has to be right. I came up with a thilling puzzle/action rpg/platformer, named 'Power of Yahweh'.
Get the chance to become Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Lot, Moses, Aaron, and Jesus in this all new platformer! Create the Ark, Cross into Egypt, Build and destroy the Golden Calf, and defeat Satan, all in one game!
Download whenever we can possibly create this wad of jizz.
I can't believe I actually chose to read such a long page. Now because you have poured forth a torrent of evil letters unto our page, your soul shall be summoned by the dark force and desecrated into obscurity
Zaku, you're really reaching, and like I said, you can't pick and choose. For two of your points you say "well, is/are X still around today," and then on the topic of Damascus, you're trying to use the fact that it still exists as evidence that it was destroyed (...). All the page says is that the remnants of the original city are buried in a certain place. Well, the remnants of old New York are buried under contemporary New York, but that doesn't mean NYC was ever destroyed. Besides, the site says the city is 7,000 years old. I'd rather trust Damascans on the subject.
As for the origin of god, or the origin of the big bang, it's not really such a big issue. We, in normal everyday life, associate events with causes. There are some things, like radioactive decay, that doesn't seem to have any apparent cause. So perhaps it doesn't apply everywhere.
Additionally, causality requires time to function. Something happens after something else. Time would not have existed previous to the big bang, so the big bang cannot have a cause, at least in the way we know it. There are theories such as an oscillating universal system, or an additional unbound dimension of time, that handle the idea of 'where did it come from' pretty nicely.
Here's the thing; only god could be powerful enough to create god, but that's circular. If god doesn't need a cause in order to exist, then why should the big bang? If god was created spontaneously, then he is uneccesary for events that are apparently equally spontaneous.
Get a real life? Your the one being played like a puppet by the devil. Your not even controlling your life he is and you cant even see that. What would a man achieve if he uptained everything of the world and falled short from the glory of God. God created us atleast we could do for him is thank him by listening to what he says. Wouldnt you want to punish your child if they disobeyed you? Common sense. Plus wouldnt he want someone to punish if his child died for you and you still hated him. Dont call the lord names strictly because you dont know his reasons. He has a plan and a reason for everything. Respect my beliefs and stop attacking them for me to defend. I wont attack yours if you dont judge mine. Though I believe, I believe in the truth and the light. Making fun of it and questioning it doesnt make you a good person no matter what you believe in.
Normally I wouldn't post anything in this situation, but I think another point of view might help you change your mind about Christianity. I was raised as a Catholic then in my early teens I turned agonistic. I was completely unsure of religon. Then I started listening to music, and I picked up a Marilyn Manson album. I loved his music and I thought his message was intelligent and clever. I read his auto-biography and I found out he was a minister in the Church of Satan. I found it very interesting and I began to experiment a little, I went to Church meetings and started hanging out in the graveyard. Most people laugh at us, but there comes a real sense of unity from finding people like yourself. We came to realise the Bible was wrong, and Satan is actually the good guy in this battle. Do you think he left God's domain for no reason? He saw past his lies and started his own afterlife where people could be happy. People think satanism is horrible, but they are wrong. Most satanists are really good people, and sacrifices are very rare and when they are done it is only a small animal like a kitten or a rabbit. If you can challenge yourself to think outside the box for a minute have a look here. http://www.churchofsatan.com/
Satan is the King of LIES. For you to think he's thinking of instead of himself your wrong. He only wants to over thrown God. No matter how many souls he has to bring down with him when he loses. If you wish to go to hell and find out that Satan tricked you I can only say that he will. Your the one who has to realise your being fooled. God has already decided the match. Its amazing how fools will join the losing team. When everyone knows Satan will lose. No matter how happy you think hell is and twisted your thoughts have gone to. God will win. Like Gilgamesh said Hell is worst place you wanna go to. All your fears will come to you. For someone to say they rather go to hell than be with someone else they dont even know! but hate is rediculous. I dont hate anyone especialy if I dont know any of you personaly, but I disagree with you that Satan isnt evil. Thats just proof how he can brain wash anyones mind!
Satan didnt see past God's lies and leave. God saw past his lies and kicked him out and made his own place called hell! for others that do wrong to join him!
DUDE the first time the bible introduces Satan he's doing evil! If it wasnt for your great Good Happy Satan we all still be the Garden naked and with no worries and care free. Insted he gives us sin and death as well the chance to be punished with him in hell. Some good fellow thats the most bull Ive heard on this whole thread! infact my whole life! The Devil has done nothing for anyone but himself. Why would you want to be with someone so greedy instead of a loving God that made you. God created us! thats enough sense for me to be on his side. The Devil is Evil theres nothing good about him and there never will be. How can someone side with the person that has giving you nothing but pain. There is nothing good to recieve in hell who ever told it was happy (Satan) only wants you to suffer with him. If he's so good! thats why he wants you so bad to suffer with him. You people are stupid! I speak the truth for you to read all this and still not believe is a stupid fool! I dont care what you say about me going the wrong way about it. The truth is the truth if it makes you scared good you should be scared of Hell!
yami you say we're being played for puppets ...ever thouht about the possibility that the church is pulling your strings so well you can't even see it, just like you say we're being played for puppets. I'm not saying you are attached to strings, just that it's possible. In the middle ages the church benefitted greatly from pulling people's strings...
Other guy - My impression of satanism is that instead of being submissive to someone you'll never even talk to, it's all about yourself. It seems to me like satanism isn't evil, but just encourages people to think for themselves and therefore simply is different from christianity which, imho, may be why Christianity alianates it.
i myself don't belong to any religion, i just mind my own business and don't see the point of belonging to a religion.<
I'll say at this point that the only problem I have with Satanism is that 'gratification' could be at the expense of others, which is a Bad Thing. Vengeance just spreads more pain, why do you think we still have so many problems in Israel/Palestine? No, what you need is BUDDHISM, the religion of peace and nature. And non-fighting, which is why you need a monkey to help you http://www.monkeymania.co.uk/monkeymagic/main.htm
I agree (maybe except for the monkey part ... O_o ).. instead of just smacking people who did stuff to you, it should be possible to talk things out and such..which it mostly isn't, and that's a shame..
Buddhism is cool..also, Buddha isn't a god, but more a role model for people and that's cool.
Yami, we do respect your religious beliefs. However, it doesn't mean that they are right. Just as in the same way that Rhys Davies holds his belief that Jesus is fake, and God sucks. Stop trying to enforce your views on everyone, because you're not likely to get yourself popularity in this way.
I personally can't stand Jehovas Witnesses, because they always try and convert you. I always slam the door in their faces everytime they come around. I have my own beliefs and I don't believe that your attitude is what we need at TDC. End this tirade now.
...Someone just said Satan is gonna kick my a$$... Im not trying to convert anyone I'd just like to prove my point especialy when someone tells me I'm wrong for believing. It's ok for this satanic to say the devil is gonna get me but not okay for me to say God made the world. If you are gonna pick me out of the group dont forget that others answered back to my response everytime making fun of it or trying to prove me wrong. I had every right to defend in what I believe in. If not what kind of believer would that make me. I understand what your saying Circy its just I couldnt not respond hearing people degrade God.
A friend of mine once had some Jehovas come to his house. He had some fairly loud Cradle Of Filth playing in the background, and when he opened the door he was like "Can you hurry up ? pig's blood dries real fast you know..". Then they ran off
Dustin you need to read I already explained this. God made the Devil second under him. The Devil was power hungry and wanted to be more powerful than God. God cast him to hell. The Devil was evil when evil didnt exist to tempt him! Thats how bad he is. Satan made us eat the fruit making us mortal and able to sin. So God gives us a chance to be in heaven again if we believe in him. And not follow the ways of the devil. God made everyone of free will he didnt make the Devil evil he just is.Even if he did which he didnt why would you follow Satan.
What, God made him evil? What kind of God would deliberately create an evil force to bring suffering unto His creation? That would be perverse, malevolent and truly sadistic...
Hmmm...Satan is the King of Evil....hmmmmm. you obviously hold no respect for the Taoists, who say that pure evil cannot exist.
I've always thought that Satan was the voice inside your head telling you to steal from the cookie jar, and the voice inside Yami's head telling him that we're a bunch of heretic liars who will be eternally punished while he'll experience eternal bliss AND that he should rub it in our faces. Then there's the voice in Yami's head that tried to tell him otherwise but has given up and surrendered to Satan and said "Well, you should at least try to save them." Then Satan said "They'll have to accept the harsh truth and if they're too weak to accept your harsh words, perhaps they deserve the punishment, while you, a good Christian, will not be punished at all for listening to me."
Conclusion: Yami needs to listen to the other voice in his head.
There was no mention of Heaven or Hell in the pre-Christ section of the Christian bible. It was added there to help prosletyzers (sp?) convince the uneducated that Christianity was a safe route.
Someone in another forum wrote:
Imagine the Religious Right standing in front of the pearly gates.
St. Peter:That's not what God intended. You did BAD things in God's name.
And he sends them all to HELL!!!
Darmani the strong, Darmani the brave, Darmani the.......................idiot who fell off a cliff!
Haha @ Chris's comment about God being cruel because he made Satan.
And should you really believe in a book that can't even get the most important story (at least for Christians) right? You do know that there are three different Easter stories and that the Gospels were written 80 years after Christ's death? It wouldn't be hard to see how fact and fiction became blurred there.
You didnt prove anything about God being a jerk. Just that your too stupid to know that he made us and that alone we should worship him for that. Not encluding his son died for us. Satanics dont believe in Satan? Funny how his names in the word and you believe he's gonna get me. Satan runs away just from hearing the word God or Jesus. If you hear yourself talking to you about whats good and whats right. It's because you already know. Lets just not say joining God or Satan and simply say Good or Evil, becaue its the same thing. Now choose one side, you all claim to be good but the side you choose decides that. Now answer this question dont question anything else I said just answer me this. Satan lied to Eve made her and Adam eat the fruit God said not too. The only thing he said not to do. Eating the fruit gave us the ability to die and sin. Now what does any of that right there make Satan the good guy? If you dont believe in either one just change the names I dont care. Just answer me how him doing this makes him good? Im a stop posting this is over I've already prove my point and everyone answering back with stupid questions only proves they cant face the fact their wrong. And if you argue with me. I say to you that you cannot face the fact that God exist and you cant live without doing what you think is what you want and is cool when the devil only made you think that with lies. AS LONG AS YOU CANT PROVE THE BIBLES WRONG I SHALL KEEP BELIEVING. Radix if could flood the world then he can seperate the water from salt and fresh proving your wrong. Proving that God can do anything so why say its impossible when its only impossible for man to do not God.
It took you five pages to come up with something as weak as that? Like I said:
'God did it' isn't an argument. If god created the universe, then he created a universe of laws and logic. Romans 1:20 says that God is to be "understood from what has been made." If he acts contrary to laws that he himself made, that makes him a deveiver. Lying is naughty. God is all good. Etcetera.
AS LONG AS YOU CANT PROVE THE BIBLES WRONG I SHALL KEEP BELIEVING.
Logical inconsistancies, contradictions, false prophesies and straight out lies have been identified all over the bible. Many times. By many people. Why don't you go out and research things for yourself, rather than deprecating the evidence you're given? Call it a test of faith.
How did this get into another TDC religious debate? It's about religion in games, ya buggers, we already loadsa had religion debate threads, and they never end nicely.
i think this thread should be locked or something....did anyone try the Noah's Arc game from popcap ? it features bible stuff without offending anyone...there, back on topic
Yami, you said Satan told Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. You id**t! The pre-Christian section of the bible doesn't mention anything about Satan. It was a STINKIN' SNAKE (with legs)!!!
Also, Satanists do not believe in God or the Devil. To them, Satan is a resembler od human nature.
And Yami, it's insane to think that we can sin because of Satan. Free will includes the ability to sin...DUH!
Notelease do not reply to that part. I will now continue my post on topic.
It's dificult to create a good religious game. References are okay, but a religious theme can ruin it.
An idea: Play as a Catholic Priest. Spread your lies to convert people, look around for things that you can fool everyone into thinking you're offended and go to court about it, while looking to sexually abuse churchgoers. Convince confessors to fervently serve the church, while tricking people into thinking that the intelligent ones are the Devil's advocate. You win if you have enough of a following to elect politicians and judges to make Catholicism the official religion of your country.
Darmani the strong, Darmani the brave, Darmani the.......................idiot who fell off a cliff!
Dear chap who doesnt like satan,please by all means enjoy my one and only game,
Skul pong 2! god's secret skul collection
God gives you a bone and a skul,and you fight* your way into hell,to kill** satan,there is a strong story line guiding those believers,and lots of blood to suck in non-believers,in the game you will see the horrors of hell,this will both entertain and scare small children to the good side
*To attempt to harm or gain power over an adversary by blows or with weapons.
Sports. To engage in boxing or wrestling.
To engage in a quarrel; argue: They are always fighting about money.
To strive vigorously and resolutely: fought against graft; fighting for her rights.
**To put to death.
To deprive of life: The Black Death was a disease that killed millions.
To put an end to; extinguish: The rain killed our plans for a picnic.
Now just because id like to know,isnt satan meant to be some sort of 3 headed blood gushing bad chap gnawing mass,with constant flapping wings which keeps his ice prison eternally cold,the place where he was put by "god",
or
"He is a "roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour" "
Well,what is his place,if hell is his prison,how does he bother mankind at all? its all very confusing,too many different stories and ideas,which generally points to lies,or misconceptions that can generally put off someone who wil look into it a little deeper.
We were pure and knew nothing of sin. Satan took the form of a Sepent and tricked Eve by lieng to her. At this time they were pure and knew nothing of lies so she fell for it. If you dont want me to prove you wrong dont post unless you know. Im trying to leave this thread and everytime I do. Someone calls me an idiot and makes up another stupid remark thats FALSE. The Old Testament states Satan in these scriptures: Job 1:6-12 and in Zechariah 3:1-2. Im not sure if theres anymore all I had to do was look in something called an index to prove you wrong. Amazing how someone can make something up then say its right.
Yami,
There is no mention of Satan in B'rai'shit, where that story takes place. If Satan was real, he would've been mentioned there. Also, I asked for no one to reply to that first part of my thread.
Everyone, more religious game ideas please!
Darmani the strong, Darmani the brave, Darmani the.......................idiot who fell off a cliff!
Even if the names were swaped it wouldnt change the fact that if you dont belive in God or the good side whatever. You will go to the bad side. Your basicly saying good means bad, and bad means good. Which doesnt prove anything. Just like saying they didnt say Satan was the serpent doesnt change the fact he's evil. Or fact that you can conclude it was him in the body of a serpent. Satan is Evil you can say someone is evil only because of he provides them to do it. Everything makes sense and is put simple. Everyones trying to make it something real complex and thats where they get confuse. Then doubt it because it doesnt make sense when you question it.
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). Also, I don't think kids will buy these games. It will give them a good laugh, of course. 
If you want to teach kids about Religon, then do it the old fashion way. Heck, beat them if you have to!
Edited by the Author.
. Religious games are dumb.
