Although we think it makes sense for Labour to replace Gordon Brown with someone else, it's very unlikely that a lib-lab deal government could form without him. The Queen would not appoint anyone else as prime minister and would appoint David Cameron as the prime minister of a minority government. I am hoping that the lib dems and labour can come to some agreement, it doesn't seem right that Gordon Brown can remain as prime minister, but it's one more way to anger people and will get them to press for political reform. I would be very disappointed if the lib dems backed the tories. Some people say it's not right that the tories can be cut out, but it's just a sad fact of democracy. Labour and the Liberal Democrats have very similar ideas in a lot of the key areas. People's votes are spread across 2 parties that are representing the same thing, leaving the somewhat opposite agenda open to what seems to be more support.
The conservatives would have won outright from what I heard on TV and reading of my Grans Sunday Comic Mirror (its almost as bad as the Sun!) if it was proportional representation (I have not looked at the figures personally though so this maybe just bull). I find it quite odd, that if such claims are true why they are not considering such reforms.
With some wards in Birmingham/West Mids having the worst unemployment in the country, I cannot believe people keep voting the Labour MP's back in with such large majorities. I would have more respect for them if they voted for anyone else, in the hope of someone doing better locally, whilst getting more representation for their party down in the commons. I just cannot believe the British public at times, especially in Birmingham (with all the companies that have gone under with no help from government at all).
@Matt: I also cannot see where this "I want it now"/Consumerism/Debt culture has arisen from. If I cannot afford it, I do not buy it (barring a mortgage of course but that will not be for a few years yet), and as previously mentioned like yourself I will use something until it breaks/wears out, then I will have a go at fixing it myself (fixed my amplifier last week and done many things on my car like waterpump, brake pads/shoes, track rod ends etc). Half the population just seem scared of getting their hands dirty (like people on side of the road calling the AA to change a tyre, my opinion is if they cannot change a tyre and they are physically well enough to do so they should not be on the roads!) or they are worried about their possessions going out of fashion.
And I also agree that the wealthiest have had too much of an easy time during this recession.
The thing is, these wards with the worst unemployment (in my town it's Falinge, look it up, highest level of benefit claims anywhere in England http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/38452/The-shameless-capital-of-BritainThe-shameless-capital-of-BritainThe-shameless-capital-of-BritainThe-shameless-capital-of-BritainThe-shameless-capital-of-BritainThe-shameless-capital-of-Britain) have no-one else to vote for, or feel they don't. You aren't going to get poor people voting Tory - there's just too much stigma attached; they aren't a party for the working classes, or in this case, the un-working classes. These people also don't listen much to news or any kind of politics really - they only see two options, Labour ("that's for poor people") and Tory ("that's for the rich"). And as we've seen in this election, the Liberals are often disregarded as a fait acompli in tight elections. Again, a problem of FPTP. Is it any wonder the racist National Front has recorded its highest vote in Rochdale in any election since the 70s?
The Tories wouldn't have won outright with proportional representation (I don't know where you got that fact from). It stands to reason that with less than 50% of the vote you do not command an outright majority. But their share of the vote would yield far more seats than Labour's under all kinds of PR, so there's no reason why they should be against it, unless they suspect that people are only voting Tory because they don't like Labour. http://www.flickr.com/photos/oledoe/sets/72157624017184792/ predicts what would have happened if various types of PR were used. The Tories wouldn't have won a majority in any of them.
And on the materialism thing, I cannot for the life of me figure out how some people have the objects they do, and why. I myself have no income, and as a result I don't really own anything (I could quite easily fit my entire life's possessions into a large suitcase). And yet I see people my age with no job, claiming they are skint, and yet they drive a car and can somehow afford its petrol, insurance and tax.
EDIT - interesting, reading the first article and how it mentions Kingsway Business Park as a new hope for the people of Falinge - KBP has been a massive white elephant and stands undeveloped on the edge of town. http://rochdaleraw.blogspot.com/2009/07/at-last-some-interest-in-kingsway.html has a report of gypsies moving on it, because of its prime, flat muddy fields. Bugger me, it's shit innit.
Originally Posted by Marko Brown is standing down - hooray! But why wait til September? Will the party really fall to pieces if he went now??
They need a new leader - otherwise we have no prime minister. I imagine he will leave when a new leader is elected, which will be between now and September.
Why can't the deputy leader step-up until a full time leader is found? To me it looks more like a) desperation on Brown's part to cling on for as long as possible and b) it makes a mockery of it all when a leader realises he's not the right man for the job but still carries on in the countries most important leadership role for another 4 months regardless!
Both good points, well made.
It also means we could easily be stuck with another PM that the public had no say in choosing - again.
There really needs to be a system in place to force a general election in the event of a leadership change within a short time (1 year?) of the last election.
At least the most likely candidate this time would be one of the Millibands (hopefully Ed), who I may even have voted for anyway - unlike Brown, who was clearly a train wreck waiting to happen from day one.
Anyhow, he's gone now (nearly) so I'm happy whatever happens
Brown won't be standing down, because it would take some time even for the Labour Party to appoint a new leader. He knows we can't carry on for much longer without a proper prime minister in the current climate; if he stood down immediately, the Labour Party would have to find a new leader BEFORE dealing with the Lib Dems. It's just not practical.
Sounds like he'll be resigning either tonight or tommorrow morning - Lib Dem talks with Labour failed, and looks very likely to be a Lib Dem and Conservative government.
@Matt: My reason for driving an old car when I was younger was not only because I think modern cars are damn fugly (they all look the same to me) but also for fiscal reasons. My car is tax exempt as it was built in 1971, so even though Brown removed the tax exemption for cars approaching 25 years old (first thing he did in 97, something I am still angry about!) it is not retrospective so cars that already have it have so indefinitely. When I was 17 the classic insurance policies was also cheap and they had not put a minimum age on policies either, something they have now cottoned on to as a lot of people started doing this . A lot of people are driving around with no tax or insurance I can guarantee you that, somebody drove into the back of my dad last week (red lights) due to shoddy brakes and the guy had no MOT, Insurance, License or road tax.
I did guess those claims about proportional representation was bull (I hinted so in the post ) I may have heard it on the politics show something's that is always on the box when I am down my Grans or the wireless in the car. It has got me thinking though, in particular that the current system acts as a filter against fanatical parties, such as the BNP (they would have got 12 seats on your link on pure PR). The thought of having > 0 scares me, so perhaps the current system is not so bad after all.
Brown out, Cameron in. Whether or not Dave will do a better job we'll soon see, though whatever happens atleast e won't be getting more of (exactly) the same!
Marko: I am quite worried actually. Whoever came into power in this election allegedly needs to make cuts bigger than Maggie did. The people in this term will be hated by the end (whether it was labour or tory) so I do fear Labour will creep back in in 5 years time as the tories have had to make cuts due to the incompetence of Brown & Co.
Inevitable now that massive cuts are going to happen. But as any economics student will tell you, the best way to get out of a recession is to increase public spending. Obviously this isn't going to happen because Labour didn't regulate in that public spending when the times were good, and the deficit is far too large to contemplate that. Failure all round then.
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Edited by Matt Boothman
. A lot of people are driving around with no tax or insurance I can guarantee you that, somebody drove into the back of my dad last week (red lights) due to shoddy brakes and the guy had no MOT, Insurance, License or road tax.
) I may have heard it on the politics show something's that is always on the box when I am down my Grans or the wireless in the car. It has got me thinking though, in particular that the current system acts as a filter against fanatical parties, such as the BNP (they would have got 12 seats on your link on pure PR). The thought of having > 0 scares me, so perhaps the current system is not so bad after all.
