I wouldn't mind TDC being generalized. I don't see why it has to be specific to klik. No matter what happens, TDC will always be a klik site.
@steve: I did look at that a few years back, but let's face it. It's not about what TDC is about. It's about creating games. Not about creating good games, just making games - supporting people who make games, and even the guys like Pixelthief who try out different styles with klik, just for the sake of doing it.
Let's face it, if you have a good game, you get 5 stars. If you have an excellent game, you get 5 stars and a review. If you have a game that's legendary, enters newspapers, indie blogs, etc, you get 4 stars and 3 reviews. Most of TDC has been biased to support game makers, not game players, and it's going to take a lot of work to reverse that trend. But then again, it's why TDC still survives longer than every other klik site, because all the attempted crap games out there mask the games that are crap because the creator was unskilled. And www.caiman.us has MORE crap games, but much, much more visitors. There have always been sites dedicated to professional klik games, like Total Klik and Klik-Me. Just have to wait until someone makes another.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
@muz yeah, TDC "survives" as you say, year-after-year but that is not the issue or question of this thread - the site deserves more integrity, more members and more people getting involved (and I could get alot more involved myself; I'd love to write honest reviews and upload my creations but...)
TDC is stuck in it's ways and we continue the tradition of supporting FAKE/MOCK games that crop up almost every week which the little niche-community ironically (or out of ignorance) give 5/5 and glowing reviews or vote as "game of the week" just to be 'funny'.
IS that what TDC stands for? Little in-jokes that nobody outside of this community would "get". Again, I ask you - what would you think if you were a new person to this site, looking for a game-making community to join to get inspiration or such and the first game you check out (on the front page - along with 5/5's) is a mock game- created as badly as possible to prove Construct is better than Fusion or to make some other silly statement that only a handful of people would appreciate.
Sure, there are other sites out there with shit games on them - but I wonder how many have all the in-fighting that goes on here and people creating games for no other reason than to mock someone else or insult the programming software it was created in!!
Btw, I don't have a problem with people making bad games - if they truly made them out of not knowing better then more experienced people can step in with constructive advice (which is great). No, what i'm talking about here are the pro's or people who have been here a long time that make a fake-account then upload crap just to put a point across. You see them a mile off, same as I do. And it does not do the community any good.
I suspect there just aren't as many clickers as there used to be.
We need to attract more non-clickers/non-programmers to the site - people who just want to play games.
If we do more to showcase the best games, and more to explain to people how easy it is to make these games using clickteam products, then perhaps they'll give it a go, and naturally they'll then want to come here to talk about it /ask for help etc.
There are little things you could do...
At the top, it says "Gotw". Chances are, visitors won't know what that is, and won't bother clicking it. Instead they go to the downloads section, download a couple of inferior games, and leave (or at least don't feel inspired to take up clicking). Like I said, I think it's important to promote the best click games.
Changing to "game of the month" would also help to increase the quality of winners - I'm not trying to offend anyone, but there have been some less-than-deserving winners in the past, due to the lack of entries in a week.
Maybe add a text box at the top of the downloads page or something, just to explain that the games were made using clickteam products, and please go >here< for more information. Maybe even add a page talking about MMF and with a little video demonstrating how to quickly make a simple game.
Yes, clickteam should be doing that kind of marketing, but since they're not, maybe we need to do it for them.
Actually, I'm sure it would be in Clickteam's interest to do more to promote TDC, instead of having just one text link, right at the bottom of a links page. I'm sure many people would be more likely to buy their products if they know there's a large community of fellow users willing to provide help and support.
Personally, I'd like TDC to stay a klik site. I don't have a problem with a change of name, but nor I see it making a big difference.
We could make the video fun too. I made a tutorial vid a while back, and the funnier/more entertaining it is, the more likely people will pay attention and be interested.
Yeah, or a series of videos and written tutorials in it's own tutorial section. Kind of like the Articles, but compiled and in categories like "Basics", "Intermediate", and "Advanced" or something. A Learning Center for new users and experienced users alike.
@steve: Good point. Maybe joke games won't be accepted anymore, but there's a thin line between a joke game and a bad game, and it takes some maturity on the part of TDCers not to turn bad games into jokes. Or bad members into joke accounts, and such.
Hmm.. yeah, I think the big problem we have is that the site is mainly geared towards klikers, and there just aren't that many klikers left. Two choices to increase TDC's visitor base:
1. Make it a non-klik oriented site. I mean really now, why do you guys even care what the game is made in? We're all making games.
2. Make more klikers.
Up to you guys which path is the better one
A lot of the site traffic is also visitors and guests, not members. Visitors tend to be generally 'useless' to the site, being invisible, never donating, taking up bandwidth, and not even rating/commenting/reviewing/contributing. The only good thing about visitors is that they're the first step towards becoming members, so it makes some sense to encourage more good visitors.
Generally, I'd assume that the visitors are here for the games. And they stay after being interested in making games. So, from the way I see it, here's a few ideas to encourage more visitors:
1. More (relevant) news. Generally, people like an active site, and news on interesting happenings help.
2. More quantity. More games = more news. And there just haven't been many games recently worth front paging.
3. More quality games. Games need to be over a certain level of quality to get on the front page. Proper description, non-ripped graphics, that sort of thing.
4. Interesting projects. Game maker or not, a lot of people love to follow up on any kind of development. So, c'mon, guys, keep up a good pace, put some nice screenshots, and entertain your project followers a little, even if it's not with a useful update.
5. Less fighting. I mean, seriously, guys. It looks lame. If you have to fight, don't do it on the front page or the downloads. Personal attacks, fighting over whether klik is an actual programming language, MMF2 vs Construct, all those things don't help you and don't help the site.
Ironically, top quality games don't really help. Maybe they're fun to follow on the projects page, but other than that, once they're released they're lauded for 2 weeks, become GOTW, then forgotten. If you don't make Top 10, you're gone. Eternal Daughter's already been bumped off and Knytt Stories is following closely.
Something should be done about that.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Ironically, top quality games don't really help. Maybe they're fun to follow on the projects page, but other than that, once they're released they're lauded for 2 weeks, become GOTW, then forgotten. If you don't make Top 10, you're gone. Eternal Daughter's already been bumped off and Knytt Stories is following closely.
Something should be done about that.
I wouldn't say so. They've been highly rated for years (ED especially) but there's a whole new generation of more playable games out there which deserve the attention.
Maybe they have a place in an all-time top 10, but the downloads should represent the current "age of click" we're in. As it were. The best of what MMF2 has to offer, and in time, the best of MMF3, Construct or whatever.
Edunt: But maybe exclude Knytt from this argument, it is a fairly new game after all.
Originally Posted by -Adam- "MMF2 vs Construct, all those things don't help you and don't help the site."
Mr "Pro Construct" who starts 80% of the debates/arguments
In your valiant attempts to unearth non-existant hypocrisy, all you're doing is creating further argument and tension. Whilst you may gain a feeling of importance in starting online tiffs, I don't think it's fair that the rest of us suffer for it. For this site to be better and more inclusive, petty bickering should be quashed. I've noticed you spend a fair chunk of your life on this place, so what is it you have to gain by passing comment on certain members? Sh*tting on your own doorstep springs to mind. It'd be nice if you snapped out of it.
Apologies if this offends, and I'm not trying to illicit some defensive reaction from you.
You know, now that I think about it, what do I care if this site goes less click-specific? I think it's better as a click-focused site, but hey, if you want to turn into just another generic indie gaming site and leave the click-only site category to rot in emptiness just to get more members, go ahead. I think it will lessen the quality and uniqueness of the site, but what do I know?
That sounded more cynical than I intended. It was meant to be a joke.
"I've noticed you spend a fair chunk of your life on this place"
Yeah because I actually work on games constantly. What do you have to show for the couple of years you've been here? 29 forums posts and an avatar of a man with what looks to be a pie for a hat that took what...3 minutes? Very Productive.
Now I may be a forum bitch, but at least I'm actually passionate about creating games, what this site is centered around. If you're going to follow me around like a little snappy chihuahua pointing out all my flaws or disagreeing with my personal opinions, don't bother- It's already been done hundreds of times, and I'm quite capable of accepting who I am. Perhaps we should buy you a muzzle?
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I made a tutorial vid a while back, and the funnier/more entertaining it is, the more likely people will pay attention and be interested.
Edited by Dr. James MD
I think it's better as a click-focused site, but hey, if you want to turn into just another generic indie gaming site and leave the click-only site category to rot in emptiness just to get more members, go ahead. 