The TDC Xmas Compo 2007
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Alright ladies and gents, Shab here, bringing you the info for the TDC Xmas Compo 2007. We've got some great prizes this year, and we're hoping that this year's compo is at LEAST as successful as last year's was.
Theme (Besides Christmas of course) - Grid Based Games
Pretty self explanatory there, your game must take place on a grid of some type. Be it a Boxxle clone, Classic Console Styled RPG, a puzzle game, a strategy game, whatever; it MUST take place on a grid. If you guys need more info, simply let me know and I'll track down some examples for you.
Float is basically just our personal preference. It's completely possible to have a well made game that you just can't stand, or two similar games but one is slightly better than the other.
If you'll notice, the max points are, unsurprisingly enough, 100pts.
PRIZES
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1. MMF2 Pro...er.Dev or $100
2. MMF2 Standard or $50
3. TGF2 or $50
Now, in order to get the cash prizes, you WILL NEED PAYPAL!
That's not it! Jeff has also told us that he has 5 "Mystery Prizes" to give out as well, so here's how we'll deal with those.
Best Graphics
Most Original
Best Use of "Christmas" theme
The "Oh so close award" - awarded to 4th place
"Round Table" - All of us judges will sit around like it's the dark ages, and pick one game that didn't win anything, and give the final "Mystery Prize" to it's creator.
Max Size
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10Mb Zipped (No Rar's)
We (meaning I) haven't QUITE nailed down how submitting your entries will be handled yet, but all that information will be included in the forthcoming Xmas Compo 2006 web page. (Will be up by next Saturday, I didn't want to delay the start of the compo for it though.)
And finally, the wonderfully scheexy Judges.
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Myself
Wong
Circy
Flava
Any questions? Well, then post in this thread, and I'll answer them as best I can, and of course, the most important thing is to HAVE FUN!
While you're at it, throw a big "Thank you" in CT's direction for once again providing us with these great prizes to give away!
Craps, I'm an old man!
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
As far as I am aware, your entries must be created by you and only you. That means graphics and everything - although I doubt we'll be too strict on things like sound/music or whatever. I guess Shab could go into more detail about that.
This is a signature. Have this one on me.
Deleted User
11th November, 2006 at 15:25:46 -
Phizzy, think more like KK mixed with Final Fantasy
Deleted User
11th November, 2006 at 15:34:00 -
Awesome title Phizzy, im so using it
If i may?
Dustin Gunn Gnarly Tubular Way Cool Awesome Groovy Mondo
Registered 15/12/2004
Points 2659
11th November, 2006 at 15:47:50 -
Prepare to be rocked
n/a
Deleted User
11th November, 2006 at 15:50:59 -
Haha wtf Torbjörn? And no, im not going on MSN ever
Btw, If i win something, must i take any prizes? Because
I don't want MMF2 or TGF2, MMF 1.5 is just fine. And
The cash prizes are in dollars, but i live in europe, so
they should be in euro's.
How hard will you be on every little pixel of graphics being entirely original for this game...
ie: no reused sprites, tiles or animations from previous games you might have done....
and what if its graphics from a game that got abandoned, so no one has seen it other than maybe on a screen or two...
Current projects: "Vollo Arena"
God bless you
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
11th November, 2006 at 17:06:10 -
"ISO games are fine, just make sure it's grid based (Like Final Fantasy Tactics for example)."
Thanks for telling everyone my idea.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Original music; it doesn't have to be from you per-se (like you could use a Nastyman song for example) but don't go ripping final fantasy music or anything. Normal christmas songs are fine though (Jingle bells and such)
Okay so if isometricism is okay (THATS A PARALLELEGRAM NOT A GRID HURR), how about hex movement? I haven't got any idea what to do yet, just wondering.
im going to do really big grid movement, like 320x240 per square so you can't actually move.
On second thoughts that is just silly and should never have been posted.
I'm going to dust off my copy of TGF (you're not alone Shab!) to finally enter a competition. This time I have no coursework, no deadlines and pure holiday between now and February. Hopefully that will mean it gets finished. The concept is so brilliant that it might evolve into something bigger, but for now I'll keep my mouth shut until I have something to show for it. Plus I have to refigure out that great French logic... woohoo.
Borgi: I wouldn't think so, as long as the grid is actually used.
The grid doesn't have to be square (someone else was outlining his plans for a hex-based strategy game earlier). And if you think you can successfully make a Christmassy game based on AIDS, well, there's nothing stopping you.
Also, just to clarify here, the grid must be used throughout ALL gameplay. You can't, for example, have a grid based game where when two character meet up on the field and battle in a platform battle.
In other words, if there is any player controlled movement, it must be on a grid.
Craps, I'm an old man!
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
the games normally submitted to this site don't require the games to be made in a click product so imagine you could program the game in C++ or whatever you want..
n/a
Deleted User
13th November, 2006 at 09:27:56 -
Damn i cant decide what game to make... already started 4 different ones
Are the games supposed to be secret, like can we submit them to TDC before the competition is over? I'm pretty sure we weren't allowed to do that last year but it was kind off stupid since nobody wants to play a christmas game in february.
I had mine done by the end of the Christmas holiday
I think it would probably be fair enough to make the games available just after the deadline has passed (they could even be released on the competition website before the judging results are in - I can't really see a reason not to).
I'll enter. But how grid-related must it be? Can I just make the character move one square per keypress, and does a battle engine have to be grid-related? Finally, can someone give me an example of a Classic Console Styled RPG?
Quick question.... How do the judges know if the maker has just altered gfx to a game they have been making for ages or if the maker has spent like 7hrs a day making it?
You really couldnt tell.
BTW im loving this comp, my first year entering! gives me a reason to work on a game
n/a
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
13th November, 2006 at 23:27:06 -
Welcome to the honor system.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Usually, the idea is that the theme prevents people from using games they were already working on because it's unlikely they'd have one based around that specific theme. This theme is a little more general than usual, but I think any grid-based games people already have are either going to be puzzlers (and I don't want to discourage anyone thinking of doing a puzzler, but they're easily outclassed in these comps unless it's really spectacular) or an RPG, and in the case of an RPG you couldn't just tack on xmassy themes since they're generally built around the story.
n/a
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
13th November, 2006 at 23:46:08 -
Assuming grids of 1x1 aren't allowed.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
2D platformers that happen to be based on grids are OK (e.g. the original Duke Nukem, for those old enough to remember it). Puzzlers are OK. Bejewelled-like games are OK. Having smooth transitions between the grid spaces is OK as long as you use a grid. Use a grid. Grid-based games. Grid.
Wong, you know that its possible to make a 2x2 pixel grid? Or even 1x1? Is that okay?
Also, is prince of persia-like games okay? They are also based on a grid, kinda...
Is it okey to post a couple of screens of your game?
I could start a new thread called: "What does you "Xmas Compo"-game look like, so far?"
That is if its okey, of course ^^
Current projects: "Vollo Arena"
God bless you
Deleted User
14th November, 2006 at 15:25:44 -
I thought about starting that thread myself, ^^
But i didnt have anything to show yet haha so i didnt.
Simon Colmer Your friendly neighbourhood spiderman
@Wong - Err, I don't recall Duke Nukem being grid based, it used the commander keen engine as far as I can remember, and that was "free" movement so to speak.
As far as what products you can use, it has to be click products. (This INCLUDES Jamagic).
I'll get to the rest as soon as work calms down a bit.
Not all of it was on a grid, but I'm fairly sure that Duke could only be on a 16x16 block (or thereabouts) or half-off it.
Similarly, Prince of Persia wasn't based on a grid for the PC/Amiga version, but the Gameboy one might have been (the character could only be in the middle or edge of platforms).
Ok, for submitting your entries; not until after the contest deadline (So you can post them starting on Xmas Eve).
Just so you guys know, this weekend there will be an actual Compo Page that will have ALL the updated info on it; so keep these questions coming so I can make sure that the page will cover most of my bases.
IIRC Duke was meant to use the Keen engine like Bio Hazard did but the dude ended up writing a similar one from scratch for some reason. But no, not grid-based.
I should guess on all the files needed for running the game only (like .exe, mods, dlls and stuff)
They havent said anything about open source so i dont think you must include that... but hey they could have simply forgotten to say that
Damn this engine is complicated to make And i havent commented at all >_< so it will be damned hard to fix all the small bugs... But no D: I wont give up on this now!
Yay! My gridbased engine is complete! Now to make the content =P. I've never made any gridbased engines at all so this was a little tricky to get right.
Mendokuse...
Dustin Gunn Gnarly Tubular Way Cool Awesome Groovy Mondo
Registered 15/12/2004
Points 2659
17th November, 2006 at 19:02:20 -
Asparagus never left us, not as long as we remembered him. We keep a little piece of him, in all of us.
A better definition of Grid Based Games with some examples.
Grid Based Games
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Definition - The game must take place on a grid. The character MUST be locked into a cell on the grid. If you want to make the grid movement smooth, that's fine, but the Characters MUST be locked into the grid (Think Old school Final Fantasy).
Examples:
Zelda (1 for NES) does NOT count as a grid based game, as only the map was grid based; the movement was "free" (Not locked into the grid)
Diablo does NOT count as a grid based game, again, only the map was grid based, the movement was "free"
Fallout DOES COUNT as a grid based game, as your character was locked into "cells" for movement
Shab, it seems awefully like your trying to disqualify games based solely on YOUR interpretation of the phrase "Grid-Based".
If you're the one completely in charge of handing out the prizes, and providing them, you should feel free to do it.
However, if there are judges, like you've said, and if clickteam is providing prizes, like you've said, you shouldn't be taking it upon yourself to offer the sole definitions of what games will be allowed in. Seems more like it should be up to the judges to decide if the final product fits the description or not when it is submitted.
Everyone has a different opinion of what a "Grid based game" is, just like everyone has a different opinion of what an "RPG" is. Some people refuse to call games like Final Fantasy RPG's. Some people call Zelda an RPG. If you asked a Blizzard Entertainment developer if Diablo was grid based, he'd tell you of course it was (Every single blizzard game is gridbased). Likewise with Zelda 1, the only thing that *wasn't* gridbased was movement.
(Actually in diablo, movement was gridbased too. It was about a 16x8 grid, very small)
"your game must take place on a grid of some type"
-> Check
"it MUST take place on a grid"
-> Check
I seem to have complied with that -_-
Anyway, my game already fits your ex post facto description, since the "free movement" is actually just a little illusion created by moving all onscreen tiles inbetween normal grid movement, in order to make it appear smooth.
But what if someone else out there created a game that fits your first description but not the new one?
I think you shouldn't simply reject a game, but have its grid-ly-ness taken into consideration while scoring.
Ok, I asked the judges what they think "Grid Based Games" are; if there are any discrepencies on what the judges think, then it will be changed. Until then, stick with the new definition.
As I've repeatedly stated before, all the final rules will be on the Compo Page. It was originally going to be up today, but with this issues, it will have to wait till tomorrow.
Edited by the Author.
Craps, I'm an old man!
Dustin Gunn Gnarly Tubular Way Cool Awesome Groovy Mondo
Registered 15/12/2004
Points 2659
18th November, 2006 at 23:27:38 -
If the characters aren't locked into cells you could make any game. Use Shab's definition, because if you haven't noticed, he's running it, and can disqualify you at will.
Yah, but like AndyUK pointed out; many of us have already started (maybe even finished) our games, and will definately not be able to remake them to comply with new, ex post facto rules.
So its just a good idea to accept pretty much all games, provided they have some quality, and take grid-ly-ness into consideration while scoring, like you would anything else.
Shabs just judge and jury, not executioner
I really don't personally mind. I don't forsee any good games being excluded for something so trival.
Zelda 1 for NES isn't free movement, it's locked. And no, Shab's rules are completely fair. He stated that those weren't complete rules in the first place, so people who started right away knew they might have to change their games based on new rules. These new rules are completely fair.
If his new rules said your game had to be isometric grids, star a black elf named Sparky and include at least 10 pictures of yourself naked, people might start complaining about it being unfair.
That really goes with any backwards rule changes (ex post facto).
Then again, the first character you meet in my game is a black elf named Sparky...
Actually Zelda 1 was a combination of the two, it was free on whatever axis you're moving on, but when you changed axis it knocked you into the nearest column or row (in intervals of about half a block). Really wierd way of doing it actually.
n/a
Dustin Gunn Gnarly Tubular Way Cool Awesome Groovy Mondo
Registered 15/12/2004
Points 2659
19th November, 2006 at 00:40:33 -
"I really don't personally mind. I don't forsee any good games being excluded for something so trival."
There are two rules:
#1: Must be christmas-based
#2: Must be grid-based
If rule #1 is broken, you may be docked up to 15 points.
If rule #2 is broken, you are completely disqualified.
So hypothetical situation. I submit two games. One of them is a platformer about Santa, where all the map is 32x32 grid thats loaded from arrays, and its entirely christmas themed. Game two is fallout. It has nothing to do with christmas, but its entirely grid based.
Fallout would end up being qualified, and the christmas game disqualified.
If you don't remember, we do annual christmas game compos. The idea is to make christmas games. Thats the #1 priority, the grid idea is just secondary to that.
In other words, you're making too big of a deal of it. Have a nice cold beer and mull things over.
Of course if you really want, I can just submit my game as a regular game, and make you a bunch of 32x32 default MMF squares attacking each other on a giant black and white grid.
Well my game counts as grid based movement, i'm fairly sure.
I was joking to Phizzy about making a platformer and making the world it takes place on called the grid.
But then i decided to actually take part with a legitimate entry.
"In other words, you're making too big of a deal of it."
I couldn't have said it better myself actually.
This will be the last "different" compo I run. If people are just going to tear into me for stupid little crap like this, then I'm done. Expect platformer compos from now on. Everyone except one or two people seems to get the theme, no problem. It's those one or two who are making this a big issue, as always.
But here's the facts ladies and gents.
Clickteam has TDC run the compo. I'm running it this year. They provide the prizes, but have given us/me final say on the compo; because they have better things to do than try and judge entries (Like build 244 for example). So that gives the judges and I final say. So far they agree with the "locked" movement (And an 8*8 minimum size on grids).
Of course, according to your words PixelThief, your game DOES follow the rules (Though you might want to make your movement grid visible, just to cover your bases) then you have nothing to worry about.
Props to shab.
If your making a game, don't be discouraged by an technicalities in the rules; just finish it, make it a good game, and submit it. The click community is a forgiving place; theres nobody thats gonna scream that a game should be disqualified from a christmas compo.
So just make your games, and don't worry that much about it.
In my case, Radix tried it out and pointed out that I actually could pretty easily make for grid-restricted movement, but I tested it out and found it detracts from the gameplay too much. Frankly its not a question of making a grid game, its a question of making a good game.
Anyways, if you wanna be really technical my game runs in restricted 128x64 grid movement, and is locked; the free movements really kinda an illusion.
Yeah, we're going to have to allow a certain bit of "play" with the rules (which we always do anyway). We are bound to get some entries that blur the lines a little (AndyUK's for example). But before we put this issue to bed (and I get the page up) and final questions regard grids and movement?
Pixeltheif, stop bitching; you know exactly what the rules mean. Just start working, and stop trying to find workarounds for the rules. The whole point is to be grid-based, not be just-barely-grid-based-but-feels-like-something-else.
n/a
DaVince This fool just HAD to have a custom rating
@PixelThief - Heh, yeah let's make BudFern the sole judge of it. Nah, we nailed down a definition. Clubby's putting the page up, and there should be a link here soon. It's gots the updated info on it (Definition and I changed the points just a bit).
Craps, I'm an old man!
Peblo Custom ratings must be 50 characters or less
Registered 05/07/2002
Points 185
19th November, 2006 at 16:57:00 -
plzplzplz less points for graphics.
"Isn't it always amazing how we characterize a person's intelligence by how closely their thinking matches ours?"
~Belgarath
Teehee, yeah shab I'm also getting the impression a *themed* christmas compo was a bad idea
Well seeing as the people in charge are sane, its not really a problem. Everyone else just needs to chill out a bit more. You put it in there to add some extra interest and instead you get half a flamewar of a debate of people trying to drive rules from the backseat; imagine if everyone was channeling all that time and effort into actually making their games
I see the page is up now and it has Zelda 1 listed as a bad example. It probably shouldn't be there... whether you consider it grid-based or not (as I've already said, it is grid-based in a wierd way; boot it up in an emulator and pay close attention to what happens when you change directions) is a matter of debate but for that reason it's probably confusing as an example.
I havent made much in the way of tile based games, but i'd like to enter this comp.
Just a question, does every object (say we have a tile based game 10 by 10 pixels) Have to be within those limitations. i know the character does, but like trees, houses, and enemies. They don't do they?
oh and another question, does every enemy have to move on the grid, or is it just the player controlled character
I asked Shab the same thing. I think it's basicly that everything which can affect the gameplay or main character does have to move in a grid(like enemies, powerups etc).
Backgrounds,texts and healthbars and such doesn't since it's just cosmetic stuff.
"eah, how exactly would posting the games on our own sites after the 24th be a problem?"
What exactly do you mean? This statement comfuses me.
"I see the page is up now and it has Zelda 1 listed as a bad example. It probably shouldn't be there... whether you consider it grid-based or not (as I've already said, it is grid-based in a wierd way; boot it up in an emulator and pay close attention to what happens when you change directions) is a matter of debate but for that reason it's probably confusing as an example."
Actually, as "Grid Based Games" is defined for this compo (On the compo page); zelda still DOES NOT meet the requirements. So I figured I'd leave it up to clear up any misconceptions.
Yeah, but thats where you cross the line differing a "Grid-based-game" compo and a "Our interpretation of what a grid-based-game is" compo
I don't care if you have a vendetta against me or my games, thats cool by me, but it would be a shame if anyone else spent time making a good game only to have it disqualified from a competition just because of your own opinion of admission; at least when you're not the person funding it.
We don't have a vendetta against you or your games. Your posts, probably. Does your game involve a grid? Do the gameplay elements take place on a grid? Is it a grid-based game? What is it that you're having difficulty understanding? Is there a wall around here I could go and bang my head on for a bit?
Personal Vendetta? HA! As much as you'd like it to be, this has never been about you PixelThief. If you don't like the way the compo's being run, then fine, I really don't give a shit anymore; you're the only one who keeps on bitching and bitching about the same things. Compo's need rules and guidelines. And they've been set; if you dont like it, fine, I don't care. Don't enter.
"Everyone else just needs to chill out a bit more. You put it in there to add some extra interest and instead you get half a flamewar of a debate of people trying to drive rules from the backseat; imagine if everyone was channeling all that time and effort into actually making their games"
And who's guilty of that? All I see is your name all OVER this thread.
"Yeah, but thats where you cross the line differing a "Grid-based-game" compo and a "Our interpretation of what a grid-based-game is" compo"
I went through and polled the judges on what they thought the "Grid Based Games" should mean, and they agreed with me (This was YOUR suggestion ["Seems more like it should be up to the judges to decide if the final product fits the description or not when it is submitted."] I might add; I just didn't wait till the end of the compo); yet here you are complaining again.
Clickteam is perfectly happy with the way the compo is being run; bumps and bruises and all. 98% of everyone else is perfectly happy with it too, so I'll say it one last time; if you don't like, then don't enter. I'm sick of answering and responding to the same things over and over again with you. This is the way it is, now deal with it. You have 30 days to get over it.
Anyway, it would be nice if someone took this thread back on topic, or changed it, since the last thing we need after phizzy is another flamewar. Although flamewars can be 1 way, I suppose.
Oh and you got me wrong about my suggestion; I was saying that the judges should just accept anything anyone submits, and decide it fits the description AFTER playing it, instead of BEFORE its submitted. Common sense, lad.
That would have been counter productive; wouldn't you like to know if your game fits the criteria BEFORE it's submitted? That's why I did it before. I even said that I did it before right after I quoted you.
Common sense? So finding out what the judges consider to be "grid based games" AFTER no one could fix it would be better than trying to explain it while you've still got 30 days left? Where is the common sense in that?
Oh, and I'm not high and mighty; I was seriously trying to clear up any confusions this compo brought forth; I'm sorry if I mistook your cries for attention for serious questions; considering that when I try to fix things, you just just start crying more.
It seems it's totally conter-productive to try and deal with any issues you have, as it seems no solution is good enough for you; so as of right now, I'm not accomodating you anymore. If you have issues; well, then you have issues.
Keep your ad hominem to the DC mail; I've plenty of room for haters.
"Oh, and I'm not high and mighty; I was seriously trying to clear up any confusions this compo brought forth; I'm sorry if I mistook your cries for attention for serious questions; considering that when I try to fix things, you just just start crying more.
It seems it's totally conter-productive to try and deal with any issues you have, as it seems no solution is good enough for you; so as of right now, I'm not accomodating you anymore. If you have issues; well, then you have issues.
I'm not going to return your flames.
Anyway, to get back on topic, the problem seems to be where we differ; we have two options for what should happen to games that don't comply with your rules for "Grid-based-ness"; 1- Games get completely disqualified, 2-Games get docked points.
The problem is in how vague you make the rules themselves; My game, for example, uses a 16x8 movement grid on top of a 128x64 background grid, which gives the impression of free movement, while taking place on a grid. Is that gridbased or not?
This is the point in time where everyone gets the 'curse' and stops making their games for a month, then finish the entire thing in an hour the night before the compo ends.
Hey guys, I really don't wanna be an arse asking this but are 64 x 64 sprites running on a 32 x 32 grid allowed? I'm pretty sure its allowed but my *pals* are telling me different. Maybe they jsut don't want me to enter... =|
As long as they interact with all squares they are on, and are still snapped to grid im sure it'd be allowed.
I.e if your grid is 32*32 and your sprite is 64*64, the character should interact with all 4 squares it'd overlap
Blah, im think im withdrawing from the compo.
I had a really sweet diablo styled engine for my game, and it even worked perfectly, but then the curse makes me abandon it for now, and instead im back to working on my main project. Which is nice considering ive left it sitting for a month; its almost at 2 hours of gameplay now.
O wells, maybe ill just halfass the xmas project and release it as a cookiecutter zombiesmashing game. God knows christmas needs more of those.
The problem with isometric games is that I have to draw 5 different angles of each animation for each enemy (i can just flip 3 of them), so each enemy I draw takes like a full day.
Can the enemies wander freely from the grid, or must they be locked to it as well? As in, the enemies would wander on the overworld, and then if you hit one, you go into battle.
Also, can I use that compo logo in the intro for my game?
Finally, the id is the one I use to log in, or the one that is my name on the forums?
I'm pretty sure it is the former.
Sorry for the next but... GODDAMNIT! I just noticed this compo and got only 8 hours left. I haven't made games for years but I love making pixel art and grid based stuff. Just my luck.
EDIT: Hmmm, just make things clear. Last night, I sent my entry to Shab, but my entry used ripped music and was not allowed. So: no ripped music people
Spent all night finding new music =_= But I got it right now, so my entry should now be valid
Whoever Dominik Szewczyk is, you didn't include your Member ID (GRRRR! DAMN IT!) with your entry, and unless you provide me with your Member ID, I WILL NOT include it in the compo because I have NO idea who you are.
Uhm, what kind of member id?? Login name? User Number? Display name? I sent you my display name; my login name is still tanoojibob, and my member id,... well just click my name.
I dunno, but they do, over half the entries I've recieved haven't been submitted correctly.
If I wanted to be a dick, I'd disqualify all those who didn't send me their entries correctly. Instead, if I can't figure out who you are; you game won't be included in the compo. AND whoever submitted their entries CORRECTLY, get 5 points added to their score.
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Awesome title Phizzy, im so using it 
Edited by the Author.
